The US, UN & Iraq III

Kara, I would have done but it was in a quick reply thing. Well, to be honest I probably wouldn't have - lazy by nature. Smile

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That's funny, Timber!! The Dauphine had a carapace like paper -- you could open your door in a parking lot, let your door rest against the Dauphine's door ever so slightly (no mark was left) and the Dauphine's door would cave in. Like tinfoil. But I had a Renault 6 (not available in the US), and it was one of the best cars I ever had. Even though it's gasline was made of thin plastic tubing... Boom.

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i find it extremely difficult to proffer criticism of France/Germany/Mexico or any other sovereign nation based on having an opinion differing from George W. Bush. I would, in fact, applaud them for having the testicular fortitude to kick Bush's school-yard bully tactics in their lack of sensitive places.

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First damned car I ever paid money for, Tartarin. The wound goes deep.

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If the US retaliates against France substantially we will have delved deeper. All they did was dissent. Heaven forbid.

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With all the access to political savvy this president has, I doubt they're about to write off France as a significant player in the UN. Laughing

c.i.

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I think the only funny thing I've read about in regard to this war is the aforementioned (by ci) reduction of French wine imports. Can Americans really believe that by not buying a bottle of Merlot they are aiding in the war effort? I mean, can anyone think of any action that takes less effort than that?

Not eating French Toast? Nes Pas?

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perception wrote:

My God Blatham----now it all falls into place Re: your views on politics. It is obvious your hero is Noam Chomsky. For our viewers this formidable intellectual is an avowed anarchist. In his background is the unquestionable influence of Bakunin (one of the founding fathers of Anarchism) and the Dutch Marxist Anton Pannekoek.

Oh my God someone mentioned Anton Pannekoek! Someone on an American board mentioned Anton Pannekoek! Laughing

I haven't heard that name mentioned by anyone since ... <thinks> ... nope, I don't think I've heard that name mentioned ever by anyone but my father, on his armchair recollections of days way back when. <giggles>. Perc, how did you come up with him? Encyclopedia entry on Chomsky?

I probably dislike Chomsky almost as much as you do, by the way ... but pegging him solely as anarchist (of the Bakunin kind, no less), seems imprecise - I have the impression that his thinking is much more amorphous than all that. He seems to handle his ideologies pragmatically, let's say.

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Concerning the state of medical care in post-war Iraq (and the question of whether its superior to what it was before the war, or not):

Quote:

From: Utrechts Nieuwsblad
Adopted from AP press agency
22.04.03

Jay Garner [..] has arrived in Baghdad yesterday. Twelve days after the fall of the regime of Saddam Hussein, there is still hardly any electricity or clean water available there.

Directly after arrival Garner paid a visit to the Yarmuk hospital, which was flooded during the last days of the war by injured people and was directly after that robbed empty by looters.

"We will help you, but it will take time", Garner tried to reassure the doctors, who weren't all impressed. [..]

Quote:

From: Utrechts Nieuwsblad
By: Mark van Assem / Bagdad
19.04.03

Although the war is almost over, every day dozens of people are still carried into the hospitals of Bagdad. They were injured by mines, bombs, shootings or other violence.

[Article continues to describe the fate of Osama Kamis (33), 37 bomb shards in his body, Adil Lilou, his back full of splinters from a bomb that exploded when his little son discovered the thing in the garden, Ali (5), "his face yellow of the jodium, a trickle of blood seeping from below the bandages covering his head and eyes", whose house was hit by an American rocket, and other victims. I'll spare you the details because you'll have read about enough of them yourselves, and they're not the point of the post.]

Mulla and Ali have been on the childrens' department of the Saddam University hospital fo four days now. Nobody can help them, because the lack of electricity means no mri-scan can be made to see where the splinters are, exactly. And thus he can not be operated either.

Doctor Riyad Zair raises his arms in a gesture of discouragement: "We can not take him to another hospital either, because they have the same problem everywhere. What we can do is keep the wounds as clean as possible and take away the pain a little. But in the end that's not enough of course." [..]

It is very busy in the hospital, but Linda (30), main nurse on the maternity ward, has nothing to do. All the 51 beds are empty. "There are no doctors. They cannot come here, because there is no fuel for their cars".

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Nimh: Puh-lease go over and take a look at the Tom Tomorrow cartoon PDiddie has posted in another forum, re: health care inter alia in Iraq: http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5978&start=150

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Tartarin wrote:

Nimh: Puh-lease go over and take a look at the Tom Tomorrow cartoon PDiddie has posted in another forum, re: health care inter alia in Iraq: http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5978&start=150

that is too-oo funny ... Laughing

... thanks.

ok, i'm off again

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Any chance any of that medical funding could be redirected to Harlem, NYC where recent tests show asthma rates far above the national average?

Oo. sorry, NY state didn't vote for GW, got attacked yes, but still, one of those blue states.

J

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timber, the Renault Dauphin... Laughing

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Timber, want my used Yugo?

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tartarin, thanks. I mentioned those two items of American values -- still an unrealized dream here but proposed to be supplied to Iraq within a year -- in conversation with someone last night. The person said, I hate naysayers. All of that stuff will be paid for by Iraqi oil. As if that had been my point....

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Nimh wrote:

<I probably dislike Chomsky almost as much as you do, by the way ... but pegging him solely as anarchist (of the Bakunin kind, no less), seems imprecise - I have the impression that his thinking is much more amorphous than all that. He seems to handle his ideologies pragmatically, let's say.>

You said "He seems to handle his ideologies pragmatically" and I say that's a very astute analysis. Perhaps that's why I consider him to be very dangerous especially in the academic setting. As are most true intellectuals he is very prolific (he has published 30 or more books) and is taken quite seriously by most groups. I'm encouraged by your stated dislike for him.

Re: My reference to Pannekoek----I'm probably old enough to be your grand father and have a vehement dislike for any advocates of Marxism or any similar insult to ones intelligence.

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if the Bush plan is to privatize the oil (as i understand) how will oil profits provide schools and medical care?

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Perception - at MIT Professor Chomsky teaches courses on AI (artificial intelligence) and not anything relating to politics; bibliography he lists for his department contains only books on linguistics:
http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/www/bibliography/noam.html

Hadn't realized he was a fan of Bakunin or of Pannekoek (hope spelled that right, hadn't heard of him before) but one thing still remember from his class is this example of difference in the way humans and computers process language:
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Ask any number of people and computers "Which is the word that all educated people spell incorrectly?" None of the humans ever guesses the answer but all computers instantly come up with the right word: "incorrectly". They're more literal-minded than we are.
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
His work has significant applications in signal processing and encryption, in addition to linguistics. Read the interview posted by Blatham, btw, and really think Chomsky focuses on the lack of clear explanation for the Iraq attack - or rather on the sequence of partial explanations - and not on politics or military strategy. I'm kind of literal-minded myself, though <G>

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Quote:

April 22, 2003
The Loneliest Victors
By WOLFGANG SCHIVELBUSCHWolfgang Schivelbusch is author, most recently, of "The Culture of Defeat: On National Trauma, Mourning and Recovery."

From the New York Times Op-Ed page, 4/22/03

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well yeah but Chomsky is a known intellectual which puts him in the suspicious catagory. He is also well known as a critic of US policy, both liberal and conservative, making him an easy target for everyone.

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The US, UN & Iraq III

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