The US, UN & Iraq III

Gelis: I shake off misperceptions all the time!!

Listen, don't try to persuade me or anyone else here with more than half a brain that because 50% of Americans believe something it must be right. Slavery, prohibition, invasion of Iraq -- a lot of things fall into that 50% category. I prefer the rest of Americans who think for themselves!

So the majority can't be right? Only the free thinkers are right? Is the majority EVER right? Say like thinking that pedophilia is wrong...I think I will go with the majority on that one. Also, can't you be an American who can think for themselves and still be in the majority? or is that completely out?

McGent, That you would equate pedophilia with slavery, prohibition, and the attack on Iraq shows how your thinking misses the whole point. c.i.

You missed his point c.i. McGentrix made a valid observation of the fallacious nature of claims that people who do not think the way you do are 'half-brained'.

As alluring as the notion may be, agreement with you is not a prerequisite for intelligence.

Edit: Incidentally Tartarin is correct to assert that majority opinion does not necessarily make something right. Just as it is not mutually exclusive with being right either.

So there was a poll that shows 50% of the people are happy that Saddam is no longer in power (we think.) That response depended on how the question was asked. If I were asked "Is it good that Saddam is no longer in power in Iraq?" I would say yes. I do not think any of us are discussing that issue.

timber, I have only skimmed your patched-in article, but I think I get the point. I heard an interesting discussion this morning on NPR (I know, that makes it suspect immediately) about the security issue in Iraq. They had discussants holding quite different points of view, as did those who called in. The main interviewee for the first part of the show was a former Air Force Colonel who feels strongly that we should not send additional troops to Iraq. (This view differed from others who spoke or called in.) The Colonel is all in favor of the new Iraqi Defense Corps of perhaps 8,000 men that is being hastily trained, with a 45-day time frame, to help out US Forces. He did not say the obvious (which was in the NYTimes this morning): this should have been done months ago, and in fact it was proposed by some in the Pentagon but other voices won out.

There is indeed a risk that this new force will be seen as US-related and might be targeted for that reason, but they desperately want to involve the Iraqis in their own defense. The thinking is that terrorists or other interest groups will be less likely to shoot at their countrymen.

I must admit I found the reasoning compelling, and I have been all in favor of a large infusion of US troops to create and maintain order in Iraq.

perception, I am not going to read your posts any more if you dis the Beeb. They are the least worst communications giant in the world. So there.

Craven reiterated my point. But perhaps misunderstood my use of half-brained -- which I would apply only to those who, after all these years, believe the majority is necessarily right! And Kara has a real point: It depends on which question you ask and how.

And I don't think we can duck the civil security issue. We invaded. We're there. Under international law, we're responsible, like it or not. Had we known that the military would not be capable or even thought responsible for security after the invasion, you can be sure the votes in Congress would have been quite different.

Along with the BBC and The Guardian, I find that NPR is the only balance I can find...........

Craven, I have never claimed superior intelligence against anybody on A2K; the fact is, I've claimed the opposite. Rather than making intelligence the issue, please address my statement: "That you would equate pedophilia with slavery, prohibition, and the attack on Iraq shows how your thinking misses the whole point." Show me how pedophilia equates to slavery, prohibition and the attack on Iraq in today's world - and in the context of this topic. c.i.

We use the same sources, Bill, and if anyone finds NPR suspect, well, I wouldn't like to see even half their brain! (Or might not be able to, with my eyes...) I'd put in a good word for the many hard-working reporters in a lot of newspapers, reporters who don't get headlines themselves but who, over and over again, try to get the whole truth and try to get their editors to print it.

Get a grip C.I. Nobody is equating that those are equal. Nobody is saying that you said you are smarter than anyone. You are making a series of misunderstandings.

The point that the neocons make when synthesized down to its common denominator is that it is unbalanced when the truth is pointed out.

You are not playing on a level (balanced) and equitable (fair) playing field if you continually mess up the hyperbole with truth!

Craven, You're the one that needs to get a grip. You still haven't answered my question. c.i.

Craven, I understand him perfectly and that you need to get the grip, firmly - quite misunderstanding c.i. IMHO. I was offended by the mischaracterization also.

Such is life!!!!!!!

Timber, that piece you put in is from opinionjournal, which is the online editorial from the Wall Street Journal, which slants a bit. When the editorial page of the New York Times today carries articles from both the left and the right, and when they all agree, then there's room for thought. And they all discuss the fact that there was little thinking, caring, or planning for the aftermath of this invasion, that all knowledgeable and expert advice was discarded, and now we're paying the price.

And for polls - well, as I recall, there were polls saying the majority of Americans did not want tax cuts, did not favor entering into a war, favored Al Gore - I suppose nobody really pays attention, eh?

I think Cicerone makes the real point. What are we doing there? All the excuses have been shown to be false (and Bush had to go for one excuse after another), the WMDs have never made an appearance (nor has Osama). What remains is to get our troops home as quickly and safely as possible.

The way it's shaping up, this idea of "democracy" as evidenced by the U.S. is not the idea of democracy dreamed of by some other countries. And trying to force our ideas down unwilling throats is proving only to have very troubling results. So, are we there to forcibly get the Iraqis to accept our ideas, no matter what the cost - I am deliberately leaving out the oil? Because if that's what it comes down to, we are in for more bloody times, and the possible disgust of the whole region.

Comes back to pure Imperialism mamaj.............

c.i. and Bill,

Nowhere did I (or McGentrix) say that "pedophilia equates to slavery, prohibition and the attack on Iraq". So I am under no obligation to answer them.

Nowehere did anyone say that C.I. has asserted superior intellect.

You both are reading things into comments that simply are not there.

McGentrix's post was about the fact that the old adage "the majority is always wrong" is incorrect. He used examples but did not seek to equate them to Iraq at all.

You misread C.I. and went on this tangent and since I do not think they are equal I am not here to answer your questions.

You are asking questions based on the misunderstanding of other people's posts and I am under no obligation to entertain them.

But because I think you guys are so lost in this I'll just answer:

No, I do not think they are equal. And nobody here ever said they were.

Will you guys join the topic again now or will you continue to make fantastic misunderstandings about what are some pretty straighforward and pretty obvious posts?

Craven, you misread what c.i. was writing, reading things where they don't belong.
That's what makes it a mixed up crazy world.

Live and learn.........

Who died and made you God anyway, gees, grow up!

Bill I did nothing of the sort and you are grasping at straws.

I will use verbatim quotes to help you through this.



C.I. Was wrong. Nowhere did McGentrix equate those things. He simply used them as examples to show that the majority opinion can be right.

For a verbatim quote from McGentrix see here:



See? No attempt to equate made. Nobody "died and made me God". I can read, and you are refusing to. That's all. Get over it already.