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The US, UN & Iraq III

 
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:12 am
Tar, shake it off ..... get up and walk around a bit .... if you are not in condition both physically and mentally the flash backs can be devastating ... try to drink something.

It's natural to try and laugh it off.
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:15 am
Got to take a break to read "Hatred's Kingdom"-----Wahhabism and the Saudi regime.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:15 am
Tartar, However, the majority of Americans still feel it was justified to get rid of Saddam's regime for the Iraqi People. We have spent all those billions and American lives (with more to come) for the Iraqi People. My only question is, for what? c.i.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:17 am
Set, not many can survive the challange de peni ... most rely on penal prosthetics
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:20 am
C.I. wrote:

Tartar, However, the majority of Americans still feel it was justified to get rid of Saddam's regime for the Iraqi People

Right on C.I. Very Happy
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:23 am
Gel wrote:

Set, not many can survive the challange de peni ... most rely on penal prosthetics

Gel, you must be talking about Lesbians. Laughing
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:25 am
Gives "havin' a woody" a whole new meaning, don't it?
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:28 am
Perc, acting has nothing to do with it ..... unless of course if you are < holds up pinky >
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:33 am
This is paul, harvey ..... pinnochio's smile .... now you know ... the rest of the story ...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:42 am
Now, I don't much go for cut-and-paste, but this article will only be available for free for a few days, so I figure I'll break my own rule and drop the whole thing here. It pretty much goes right along with the e-mails and letters I get from my son and others who are there, but aren't journalists.
Quote:
[size=27]FROM THE FRONT[/size]

'Bush Good, Saddam Bad!'
A Marine reports from Iraq, where things are far better than the media let on.

BY JOHN R. GUARDIANO
Tuesday, August 19, 2003 12:01 a.m.

AL HILLAH, Iraq--There's more to America than New York, Washington and Los Angeles. The same is true for Iraq; there's a vast country outside Baghdad and the "Sunni triangle" that's now the center of a guerrilla campaign. It's understandable that Western press reports are fixated on attacks that kill American soldiers. But that focus is obscuring what's actually happening in the rest of the country--and it misleads the public into thinking that Iraqis are growing angry and impatient with their liberators.
In fact, there is another Iraq that the media virtually ignore. It is guarded by the First Marine Division, and, unlike Baghdad, it has been a model of success. The streets are safe, petty and violent crime are low, water and electrical services are almost universally available (albeit rationed), and ordinary Iraqis are beginning to clean up and rebuild their neighborhoods and communities. Equally important, a deep level of mutual trust and respect has developed between the Marines and the populace here in central and southern Iraq.
I know because I'm one of those Marines. My reserve unit was activated before the war, and in April my team arrived in this small city roughly 60 miles south of Baghdad. The negative media portrait of the situation in Iraq doesn't correspond with what I've seen. Indeed, we were treated as liberating heroes when we arrived four months ago, and we continue to enjoy amicable relations with the local populace.
The "Arab Street" I've meet in Iraq loves--that's not too strong of a word--America and is deeply grateful for our presence. Far from resenting the American military, most Iraqis seem to fear that we will leave too soon and that in our absence the Baath Party tyranny will resume. This sentiment is readily apparent whenever we venture into the city. We don't make it far outside of our camp before throngs of happy, smiling children greet us.
"Good, good!" they yell, as they run into the street, often oblivious to oncoming traffic. They give us a hearty thumbs-up and vigorously wave and pump their hands. They are eager to see us and to talk with us. To them, it is clear, we are heroes who liberated them from Saddam Hussein.
"Bush good, Saddam bad!" many Iraqis tell us emphatically--and repeatedly. I'm not sure how George W. Bush is faring with the American public, but he's got a lock on Al Hillah.
Iraqis routinely ask me to "thank Mr. Bush for freeing us of Saddam" and tell me, "We are very grateful, because you have freed us of our worst nightmare, Saddam Hussein." (A lot of Iraqis speak surprisingly good English because most studied it in primary and secondary school.)
It all reminds me of my experience a decade ago in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. Most ordinary Russians, Poles and Czechs hailed Ronald Reagan as a hero for bringing down the "evil empire" when few people had the courage even to call it that.
In much the same way, ordinary Iraqis have a tremendous reservoir of goodwill for the president who coined the term "axis of evil"--and who then acted to eradicate a primary source of that evil.
The Iraqis know who their foes are too. Two Iraqi children once spontaneously shouted to me, "France, Chirac!" while giving the thumbs-down sign and shaking their heads disapprovingly. The children quickly smiled and shouted "Bush!" while punching the sky.
"We are very glad that you are here and we hope you never leave," Zaid, a 31-year-old mechanical engineer, told me. "If you leave, then there will be more trouble. The Bath Party thugs will take over."
Zaid makes a decent living selling pirated American movies. He enjoys sophisticated dramas like "The Shawshank Redemption" and "Saving Private Ryan." But most Iraqis, he notes, prefer action-packed adventures starring Sylvester Stallone, Jean-Claude Van Damme and Arnold Schwarzenegger. (Mr. Van Damme especially is quite popular with Al Hillah children.)
This is not to say that everyone here likes America, nor that Al Hillah is problem-free. Iraq, after all, is still quite poor and suffering from the aftershocks of Baathist rule and economic isolation. One of the biggest problems is looters who steal oil from pipelines and parts from electrical generators to sell on the black market. The country needs more electrical power plants and a better police force.
There are more than 15,000 unemployed ex-Iraqi soldiers in Al Hillah and the surrounding Babil Province. When these soldiers discovered that the U.S. was making interim payments to local municipal employees, they demanded similar financial compensation. A small number of these soldiers even staged a protest at city hall.
The soldiers' complaint was not that the United States is too heavily involved in Iraqi affairs. They were instead complaining that we are doing too little to help them. They want more help, not less; they seek greater engagement, not a withdrawal of American military forces. The difficulties here aren't the result of the U.S. being heavy-handed. Rather, they result from our inability to bring greater resources to bear.

The news from Baghdad, Tikrit, Fallujah and Ramadi--the Sunni triangle--suggests a bleaker image because these areas are very different politically, religiously and culturally from the rest of the country.

Politically, greater Baghdad is populated with people who owe their privileged status in life to Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party. Most Iraqis, by contrast, were brutally oppressed by Saddam. Religiously, greater Baghdad is heavily Sunni. Iraq, by contrast, is two-thirds Shiite, and Al Hillah is 99% Shiite. Culturally, greater Baghdad is relatively secular, political and cosmopolitan. The nation as a whole is more religious, apolitical and insular.
It helps, too, that we Marines have maintained a friendly and visible presence in Iraqi neighborhoods and bazaars. The bottom line: In the Marine-administered towns and provinces in the south, the Iraqi "Arab Street" is mostly docile, compliant and eager to engage rather than shun the West.
As my experience in Al Hillah shows, most ordinary Iraqis are in no way disillusioned with the U.S. What they want--and need--is greater help. This will necessitate a sustained military presence here until the seeds for economic growth and development have taken root.
For that I know the men, women and children of my Arab street are grateful. As Zaid has told me, "It will take 10 to 15 years for Iraq to become a normal country. It is important during that time that the United States be here to help us." Semper fidelis, Zaid.
Lance Cpl. Guardiano is a field radio operator with the U.S. Marine Corps' Fourth Civil Affairs Group and, as a civilian, defense editor of Rotor and Wing magazine.


Copyright © 2003 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110003883
I really think there is some srious ax-grinding goin' on with The Media ... what they report and what I get from folks on-scene is rather at odds.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:45 am
Don't fail to note, Timber, that the author of your piece is a professional journalist, which rather beggars your contention that this article is an example of ". . . e-mails and letters I get from my son and others who are there, but aren't journalists."
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perception
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:45 am
Gel

Just ckecked and I've got the equipment that some people just "wish" for Laughing
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wolf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:45 am
Tartarin is the only one talking any sense here. In a topic that doesn't ask for childish wordgames -- people died yesterday, their families are destroyed -- I would advise you to become responsible.

Since after wwII, the U.S. behave like in a 19th century colonial epoch. They put political enemies into place and then invade their countries. Triggers are put in place to be able to sell it to us. That's the recipe, that's what lies behind it all. The rest is propaganda.

You can either agree with this colonialism, or not. I don't.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:48 am
Timber, wellll .... they are kinda getting shot dead a little bit.

The last one took six rounds to bring down .... picked him right out of a crowd they did .... I guess it's not easy telling a camera from a rpg.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:50 am
I knew it ... an oscar meyer wiener
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 09:58 am
Gelisgesti wrote:
Timber, wellll .... they are kinda getting shot dead a little bit.

The last one took six rounds to bring down .... picked him right out of a crowd they did .... I guess it's not easy telling a camera from a rpg.

You're right ... its not easy to tell the difference, particularly considering the velocity of an RPG is just under Mach 1 and there isn't much time available for fine distinctions if one's object is to remain alive.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 10:01 am
There's never a win-win situation in a war zone between the military and media people. If the media people are there in the middle of a battle zone, they must surely understand the risks. If they don't, they don't belong there. c.i.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 10:17 am
combat troops make terrible policemen
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 10:22 am
perception wrote:
Gel

Just ckecked and I've got the equipment that some people just "wish" for Laughing


A PPC? A 2.6 Ghz laptop? A cell phone that takes pictures?

A digital camera?

What Question
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2003 10:31 am
c.i., Dyslexia, good points, both of you. A warzone is by definition a high-risk environment, and yup, combat troops are trained to eliminate opposition, not to regulate civil behavior.
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