You are right there, DrewDad. I guess I just assumed everyone would know who Ted Bundy was. Guess I am showing my age.
We overlapped; I was actually responding to Echi.
Momma Angel wrote:echi wrote:
Kind of off topic (like we're not already), but do you think that a person born without a conscience could still be "saved"? (hypothetically, of course)
echi,
Very intriguing question. But, I believe that everyone can be saved, echi. In cases of extreme mental illness, I just don't see God turning them away, do you? I mean extreme in the sense if the person is unable to determine wrong from right.
How do you think God could help someone who has no conscience?
What do you mean by help?
Why would God create someone with no conscience?
Well, "saved", I guess. Is a person who is (hypothetically) without a conscience necessarily damned?
DrewDad,
God created Adam and Eve. Everyone else has been physically born.
echi,
If Ted Bundy was capable of discerning right from wrong, then he was certainly capable of making the decision to abstain from what he knew was wrong. Therefore, he had the free will to decide if he wanted to be saved or not.
Momma--
If, as you and others say, Bundy had no conscience, then his understanding of right/wrong was totally different than our's. He may have known the consequences, but he could not have understood the reasons. He wouldn't have known why certain acts were right or wrong, only that other people had said that they were.
So, how could a person in that situation possibly be saved? If he had no conscience, he would not even understand the concept of forgiveness.
echi,
It's not that he did not understand. He did not care.
Do you really think he didn't understand why killing was wrong? Do you think he only thought killing was wrong because someone said it was?
Forgiveness? echi, Ted Bundy had no remorse. He felt neither the need to forgive nor the need to be forgiven. He cared only about himself.
He was the world. The world was his playground. People were toys to him.
Someone who does not know right from wrong does not try to hide the wrong.
Momma Angel wrote:echi,
It's not that he did not understand. He did not care.
Do you really think he didn't understand why killing was wrong? Do you think he only thought killing was wrong because someone said it was?
If he understood why killing was wrong, then he must have had a conscience.
Really? Isn't it your conscience that stops you from doing those things?
Yes it is, if you listen and do what it says. I don't always obey mine, either.
But the point is, Ted Bundy had nothing to tell him to stop. He had no conscience. He knew what was legally right and wrong.
echi, have you done any research into Ted Bundy or others like him? You might find it very interesting.
Your conscience is a feeling of shame when you do something immoral. It does not, in of itself, prevent you from doing it.
It is not possible for someone to ask for forgiveness if that person has no conscience. Wouldn't a person like that be left out in the cold by God?
echi,
God wanted that all the world to be saved. Those from the living and from the dead. There is still time for the souls of the dead to be redeemed in Christ.
