9
   

America... Spying on Americans

 
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 02:46 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Why are you so sure Iran will? Will you destroy over a million Iranian lives on your guess?


Are you seriously suggesting allowing Iran to acquire nuclear weapons is something we should allow to occur?




The article states that Iran is seeking to develop a nuclear energy program.

Quote:
Nuclear power plants provide about 17 percent of the world's electricity. Some countries depend more on nuclear power for electricity than others. In France, for instance, about 75 percent of the electricity is generated from nuclear power, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. In the United States, nuclear power supplies about 15 percent of the electricity overall, but some states get more power from nuclear plants than others. There are more than 400 nuclear power plants around the world, with more than 100 in the United States.


http://www.howstuffworks.com/nuclear-power.htm

Since when did the WORLD put the United States in charge of determining which countries will be allowed to have nuclear power plants, and which countries will NOT be allowed to have nuclear power plants?

Tico seems to think that the United States is the boss of the entire world. Perhaps Tico needs to join the armed forces so that he will have a direct, front line role in helping the United States enforce its dictatorship over countries that seem to think they have a right to rule themselves.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 02:58 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Why don't you just study the Constitution, tico?

The Ninth Amendment was sited rarely until 1965 in the Supreme Court case of Griswold vs. Connecticut, it was not until then we were provided with a Right to Privacy in a 7 to 2 decision by the Supreme Court.


You really shouldn't act all pompous concerning a subject about which you clearly know little. I asked the question for your benefit, so that you could learn the following:

A) I have studied the Constitution;
B) The word you are thinking of is "cited," not "sited"; and
C) The Griswold opinion did not "provide us with a Right of Privacy. The Constitution does not "provide" us with any rights, or "establish" any right .... it simply guarantees them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:01 pm
Excellent point, Debra. Tico still thinks the US (that no longer has much credibility in this world) is the world policeman. They still don't realize all the chaos created by the US in Iraq nor the criticisms of friend and foe that permeates around the world against us.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:02 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Tico seems to think that the United States is the boss of the entire world. Perhaps Tico needs to join the armed forces so that he will have a direct, front line role in helping the United States enforce its dictatorship over countries that seem to think they have a right to rule themselves.


You haven't answered the question either, Debra. Although I think we can infer what your response will be, I'd like for at least one of the leftists on this thread to take a clear position:

Do you think it is acceptable for the US to allow Iran to have nuclear weapon capabilities?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:05 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The problem with your argument, Tico, is that it does not have the force of law behind it; while FISA most certainly does.

Arguments that FISA cannot encroach on the President's constitutional power are, in fact, countered by the FISA law itself; FISA does limit the president's power, specifically, and was signed into law by a President. It is not a 'tool' for law enforcement, as the Administration has said. It is a bind upon law enforcement, specifically put in place to keep this exact situation from coming up.

The opinion that FISA doesn't bind the President has no force of law behind it, while the legally passed and signed law certainly does. Until FISA is successfully challenged by the Administration or others, it remains binding law the the Administration cannot break without being in violation of both the FISA laws and their oath of office.

The AUMF argument is ridiculous and has been shown to be false. Do you need links to prove this?

Cycloptichorn


We've made these arguments before, and neither of us will change our minds until the Supreme Court has weighed in and decided the matter. I can't imagine what your "links" are regarding the AUMF argument having been "shown to be false." I wasn't aware the Supreme Court had decided this issue .... Or are you just referring to some law professor's opinon(s)?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:10 pm
"site - position, placement, placing, disposition, locality, whereabouts, ..."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:10 pm
If you have difficulty with the definition of words, how are we to expect you to understand anything?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:12 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Since when did the WORLD put the United States in charge of determining which countries will be allowed to have nuclear power plants, and which countries will NOT be allowed to have nuclear power plants?


The world didn't, Debra. The world (e.g., the UN, and the IAEA) has shown time and again that it is willing to issue strong warnings and condemnations about such matters, but it has no backbone/capability to do anything about it. The US, on the other hand, has shown very clearly that it has ... despite all the sniveling leftists in this country that think we ought to just allow sovereign countries develop WMD (after all, the US and Israel have nukes, so it's only fair if Iran has them too Rolling Eyes).

One thing is clear: If the Democratic party issues a clear statement supporting Iran's right to have nuclear power (weapons), it will guarantee the Republican party will be in power for many years to come, because it will have shown -- yet again -- that it cannot be trusted with matters of national security.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:14 pm
the Right to Privacy and the Ninth Amendment to the Constitution

The Ninth Amendment states. "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage other rights retained by the people.

Most of this text was taken from [the Constitution of the United States of America, analysis and interpretation, annotations of cases decided by the Supreme Court of United States.] Prepared by the Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress: The Ninth Amendment.

Aside from contending that the Bill of Rights was unnecessary, the Federalists responded to those opposing ratification of the Constitution because of the lack of a declaration of fundamental rights, by arguing that inasmuch as it would be impossible to list all rights, it would be dangerous to list some, because there would be those who would seize on the absence of the omitted rights to assert that government was unrestrained as to those. James Madison averted to this argument in presenting his proposed amendments to the House of Representatives. "It has been objected also against a Bill of Rights, that, by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power, it would disparaged those rights which are not placed in that enumeration; and it might follow by implication, that those rights which were not singled out, were intended to be assigned into the hands of the General Government, and were consequently insecure. This is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard against the admission of a Bill of Rights into the system; but, I conceive, that it may be guarded against. I have attempted it, as gentlemen may see by turning to the last clause of the fourth resolution." It is clear from this text and from Madison statement that the Amendment states but a role of construction, making clear that a Bill of Rights might not by implication be taken to increase the powers of the National Government in areas not enumerated, and that it does not contain within itself any guarantee of a Right or a proscription of an infringement. Recently, however, the Amendment has been construed to be a positive affirmation of the existence of Rights which are not enumerated but which are nonetheless protected by other provisions.

Earlier, Madison had written to Jefferson: "My own opinion has always been in favor of a Bill of Rights; provided it is so framed as not to imply powers not meant to be included in the enumeration.... I have not viewed it in an important light, because there is great reason to fear that a positive declaration of some of the most essential rights cannot be obtained in the requisite latitude. I am sure that the rights of conscience in particular, if submitted to public definition would be narrowed much more than they are likely to ever be by an assumed power. To some extent, the Ninth and Ten Amendments overlap with respect to the question of unenumerated powers, one of the two concerns expressed by Madison, more clearly in his letter to Jefferson, but also present in his introductory speech.

The Ninth Amendment was sited rarely until 1965 in the Supreme Court case of Griswold vs. Connecticut, it was not until then we were provided with a Right to Privacy in a 7 to 2 decision by the Supreme Court. The case involved a statute prohibiting the use of contraceptives, and was voided as an infringement of the right of marital privacy. Justice Douglas, writing the opinion of the court, asserted that the "specific guarantees in the Bill of Rights have penumbras, formed by the emanations from those guarantees that help give them life and substance." Thus, while privacy is nowhere mentioned, it is one of the values served and protected by the First Amendment, through its protection of Associational Rights, and by the Third the Fourth and the Fifth Amendments as well. The Justice recurred to the text the Ninth Amendment, apparently to support the thought that these penumbral rights are protected by one Amendment or a complex of Amendments despite the absence of a specific reference. Justice Goldberg, concurring, devoted several pages to the 9th Amendment. The opinion was joined by Chief Justice Warren and Justices Clark, Goldberg and Brennan, "The language and history of the ninth amendment revealed that the Framers of the Constitution believed that there are additional Fundamental Rights, protected from Governmental infringement, which exist alongside those Fundamental Rights specifically mentioned in the first 8 Constitutional Amendments.... To hold that a Right so basic and fundamental and so deep rooted in our society as the Right of Privacy in a marriage may be infringed because that right is not guaranteed in so many words by the first Eight Amendments to the Constitution is to ignore the Ninth Amendment and to give it no effect whatsoever. Moreover, a judicial construction that this fundamental right is not protected by the Constitution because it is not mentioned in explicit terms by one of the first Eight Amendments or elsewhere in the Constitution would violate the Ninth Amendment.... Nor do I mean to state that the ninth amendment constitutes an independent source of right protected from infringement by either the States or the Federal Government. Rather, the Ninth Amendment shows a belief of the Constitution's Authors, that Fundamental Rights exists that are not expressly enumerated in the first eight Amendments and an intent that the list of Rights included their not be deemed exhaustive." Justices Harlan and White concurred independently, without alluding to the ninth amendment, but instead basing their conclusions on substantive due process, finding that the state statute, "Violates basic values implicit in the concept of order and Liberty."

Our Privacy Rights and our Fourth Amendment Rights are under attack as never before; because of [the War on Terrorism] Please tell your Senators, your Congressman, and the President of the United States, how you feel about your Privacy Rights and Fourth Amendment Rights, and that you do not want them violated, by Congress or the Presidency.

Thank you for coming to this web page, Created by me N. Scott Mills, for any questions and our comments please e-mail me at [email protected] We must be forever vigilant, to stay forever free, in the Freest Nation on Earth
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:16 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"site - position, placement, placing, disposition, locality, whereabouts, ..."


cicerone imposter wrote:
If you have difficulty with the definition of words, how are we to expect you to understand anything?


Laughing You really should quit before you dig your hole so deep you cannot escape.

You said: "The Ninth Amendment was sited rarely until 1965 in the Supreme Court case of Griswold vs. Connecticut, ..."

Your use of the word "site" was incorrect, as your definition above clearly shows. On the other hand, the word "cite" means:
    cite tr.v. cit·ed, cit·ing, cites 1. [b][color=#FF0000]To quote as an authority or example.[/color][/b] 2. [b]To mention or bring forward as support, illustration, or proof: cited several instances of insubordinate behavior.[/b] 3. a. To commend officially for meritorious action in military service. b. To honor formally. 4. To summon before a court of law.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:18 pm
Tico, You never learn do you? I didn't not write that article. See my post above.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:19 pm
According to N. Scott Mills, most of it was Prepared by the Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress: The Ninth Amendment.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:20 pm
Laughing Just because the word was used in the sentence you lifted some webpage does not mean its usage in the sentence you quoted is correct, c.i.

Quote:
Tico, You never learn do you? I didn't not write that article. See my post above.


Yes, I know you didn't write the article. And even so you felt the need to defend its improper usage.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:20 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
According to N. Scott Mills, most of it was Prepared by the Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress: The Ninth Amendment.


I don't care who wrote it ... it's incorrect.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:20 pm
Go tell them about their wrong use of words.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:21 pm
And you people call ME stubborn .......
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:22 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
And you people call ME stubborn .......


that's not what I call you....
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
According to N. Scott Mills, most of it was Prepared by the Congressional Research Service, Library of Congress: The Ninth Amendment.


I suspect it was penned by N. Scott Mills, and not the Congressional Research Service.

From the website where you gleaned that jewel:

Quote:
The Ninth Amendment was sited rarely until 1965 in the Supreme Court case of Griswold vs. Connecticut, it was not until then we were provided with a Right to Privacy in a 7 to 2 decision by the Supreme Court. The case involved a statute prohibiting the use of contraceptives, and was voided as an infringement of the right of marital privacy. Justice Douglas, writing the opinion of the court, asserted that the "specific guarantees in the Bill of Rights have penumbras, formed by the emanations from those guarantees that help give them life and substance." Thus, while privacy is nowhere mentioned, it is one of the values served and protected by the First Amendment, through its protection of Associational Rights, and by the Third the Fourth and the Fifth Amendments as well. The Justice recurred to the text the Ninth Amendment, apparently to support the thought that these penumbral rights are protected by one Amendment or a complex of Amendments despite the absence of a specific reference.


Huh? I guess that guy has the right to mangle the English language .....
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:37 pm
Tico,
Quote:
We've made these arguments before, and neither of us will change our minds until the Supreme Court has weighed in and decided the matter. I can't imagine what your "links" are regarding the AUMF argument having been "shown to be false." I wasn't aware the Supreme Court had decided this issue .... Or are you just referring to some law professor's opinon(s)?


I'm aware of the fact we've made these arguments before. The problem is, you act as if my argument is the same as your argument - an opinion. My argument is not an opinion. It is currently existing law. My opinion is backed by force.

This is why the Administration, and by the same boat your argument, fail in this case; they may be of the opinion that FISA - a limit on Executive authority - does not or should not encroach upon their authority, but the law specifically says that it does, and furthermore, it was approved by the Executive branch! Your boy Bush is bound by the decisions of previous presidents.

The matter has already been decided. The president, even if he believes a law to be wrong, does not have the authority to arbitrarily decide to break that law, and escape the consequences of doing so. Do you disagree with this? Unless you say 'yes, I disagree with this,' your whole case is absolutely meaningless; and the best part is, you know it! Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2006 03:39 pm
And, as to the AUMF, then yes, it is 'law professors' opinion,' but then again, the argument that AUMF permits this sort of skullduggery is also just a 'law professors' opinion.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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