cicerone imposter wrote:okie, You obviously missed Debra's post Censuring the President which included the following statement:
Serious questions remain about certain provisions in the Patriot Act that threaten the privacy of innocent Americans, and about the basis for the claims the administration made in leading us into the Iraq war. In both of those instances, Congress gave its approval to the President's actions, however mistaken that approval may have been.
That was not the case with the illegal domestic wiretapping program authorized by the President shortly after September 11th. The President violated the law, ignored the Constitution and two branches of government, and disregarded the rights and freedoms upon which our country was founded. No one questions whether the government should wiretap terrorists -- of course we should, and we can under current law. But the President is refusing to follow that law, which includes safeguards to protect innocent Americans, and instead he's making up his own law. It's time that he is held accountable for breaking the law.
Congress may consider a range of other actions, including investigations, an independent counsel, or even impeachment. But at a minimum, and as a first step, Congress should censure a president who has so plainly broken the law.
Bush lied, because of what he said in his speech in 2004:
Before the program was revealed, he also misled Congress and the Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires, a wiretap requires a court order."American people about the wiretapping that was being done. For example, at a 2004 speech in Buffalo, he said, " And at a 2004 speech in my home state of Wisconsin, he said that "the government can't move on wiretaps or roving wiretaps without getting a court order."
If you think this is "spin," you have no idea what you are talking about.
I did not miss Debra's post. In regard to the wiretaps, yes, it appears his statement is not exactly and entirely correct. However, I would point out that a few members of Congress were informed of the program, were they not? So as far as misling Congress, your statement is a "lie." Just kidding, lighten up here. Lets take your statement that nobody questions the need to wiretap terrorists. You could have fooled me.
Before and at the outset of this program, officials were saying that FISA was not adequate to cover the necessary means to do what needed to be done now. In other words, technology was advancing faster than the law. The idea of changing FISA or devising a new law was considered, but there was the opinion that this may not be possible given the adversarial state of affairs in Congress, and even if possible, it would be a long drawn out partisan affair and would signal the terrorists exactly as to what we were doing. Therefore the advice and opinion held that the president had inherent powers under the Constitution to do what was necessary to protect the country in time of war. Obviously, not everyone agrees with this, and this will need to be determined now that the program has been revealed.
In regard to Bush's statement, keep in mind here that the program was regarded as secret, so that terrorists would not be privy to what we were doing. If a spy is in the Iran government, and the president is asked if there is, do you expect him to tell everything, yes, lie? I am not justifying it. I am explaining the reason for it. It was not for personal gain.
I do not see the Democrats looking at this situation with any historical context or in a balanced way. It becomes obvious by their words and actions that to "get Bush" is a higher priority here than doing the proper thing to stay ahead of the technology and monitor terrrorists efficiently, and if the law is outmoded, then why aren't they working on updating it in a non-partisan manner? They care more about their own political power than us, the citizens, or the country. If Bush had not instituted this program and something had happened, guess what some would be calling for now? Probably impeachment for not doing enough. A significant portion of the American people have figured all of this out.
The other mistake being made here is that Bush, and Bush alone, came up with some selfish idea to exercise his power over the American people, to sit around and monitor conversations of his political enemies or some such nonsense. Such an image portrayed is utter nonsense, and that is why this issue being used as a political scandal by the Democrats will not gain much traction with the American people.
If the politicians want to do something positive, quit the grousing and infighting, and if FISA is outmoded or inadequate, which looks obvious that it must be, get busy on fixing it pronto with revisions or a new law. Children, quit fighting over the toy and whose toy it is, and fix the toy.
