Student suspended for speaking Spanish in school hallway

Merry Andrew wrote:

I agree with Roxxxanne. Spanish already is a de facto second language in most urban areas of the USA. And rightly so, I believe.

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Good, I will remember that when you arrive at the hospital and your doctor cannot speak English and you cannot speak whatever language they are speaking.

I was born in New York City and started my formal education there. Students came from all over the world...including Spanish speaking nations and learned English. They were darned proud to learn English. Back then ESL classes were short lived. Students learned English and moved forward. Your idiotic method will have the math teacher explaining first in one language and then in another for all the kiddies who decided or whose parents decided that learning English wasn't important.

Why Chinese for New York? Why not? My brother lives there and he has told me that even voting is now done in Chinese. In point of fact the card they send to remind him of his polling place is written in Chinese as well as English and Spanish..Chinese as the second official language of New York City seems perfectly reasonable to me as an option. Further, neither you nor Roxxxanne have bothered to tell me which form of Spanish you would choose for the nation as a whole.

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Sturgis, I don't believe you read my entire post. My point is that we owe a debt to Spanish-speakers in this country that we do not similarly owe to any other nationality. As for your off-the-cuff jab about arriving at a hospital where there are no Anglophones, that's just an absurdity. I never said that persons dealing with the general public are entitled to not speak English. You're setting up a straw man there. I do think, however, that it would be a good thing to have more bilingual people working in places such as hospitals, police precincts, fire houses etc. etc. Turn your own example around. How would you like to be in an emergency situation, just off the plane from San Juan, P.R. (an American territory) and have the nurses and doctors jabbering at you in English? That knife cuts both ways.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Utterly laughable: The implication of the originating post, and (to an even greater extent) the responses that precede this one.

This is a rare and unusual experience, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise.

There are far far more instances of kids being, inappropriately, allowed to speak Spanish then there are one where merely speaking in Spanish got a kid in trouble. In fact, I doubt that anyone can find a story in the news that is on par with this one.

I would love 2 examples of kids being allowed to innappropriately speak Spanish since you said there are MORE of those and we have 1 example of the lesser.

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Sturgis wrote:

Let me help you out here M.A. The school is set to prepare people for life. Let's say you go to the hospital for some reason and are in the emergency room and the nurse and doctor who both speak your language, since it is the native language of the location you are in, start yammering away in another language. You are already in a bad place healthwise and their rudeness just magnifies this. You do not know what they are saying and may even think the worst...this will have an adverse effect upon your health.

Man, you are really stretching the analogy, aren't you? From two kids having a conversation to risking peoples lives at a hospital. Lemme see if it works.... hmmmm... Nope. It doesn't.

Sturgis wrote:

You are in a store, you ask a simple question and 2 employees, born and raised in the community start talking in another language...there is no excuse for this.

That one is a little better, but still doesn't apply. Your example involves an Engligh speaking person who needs the help of an employee, who then speaks Spanish in reply (which would, admittedly, be rude). In this situation this kid was having a private conversation with another student (read: no third party). No one else was involved. Nothing wrong there.

Sturgis wrote:

You are in a movie theater, theater employee starts to talk to another employee in a foreign language.

Now I think your just going off the deep end. Are you talking about while your in the movie? If so, everyone needs to be quiet. It doesn't matter what language the person speaks, it would be rude. Or are you talking about just two employees working the counter speaking Spanish? In that case, I'd agree. That would be inappropriate (unless the customer speaks Spanish, in which case it would just be common senese to communicate with the person in their own language...something I've done plenty of times back when I used to work at McDonalds as a kid).

Sturgis wrote:

...the school been trying to give Mr.Rubio and all its students skills for living in the world. These skills do not include intentional rudeness. Mr. Rubio should be grateful he was not expelled.

Expelled? What the hell is wrong with you? The kids were having a private conversation between the two of them in the hallway, no less... and your talking about expulsion? The school can have policies about speaking other languages in class, but schools cannot regulate what language the students can speak in private conversations amongst themselves between class (at least no more than what the Constitution would allow prevented, such as hate speech, fighting words, etc). Saying the kid could have been expelled for that is a little disturbing. Should students be caned for littering? How about slapped for sass talk?
---(I'm just joking there, don't go nuts on me)

Sturgis wrote:

In a park or as a restaurant patron it is fine, but a student or an employee is obliged to have decency. Mr. Rubio has failed.

Jeez man, "Mr. Rubio has failed"? The kid answered a question in the language it was asked (being capable of speaking both languages), and it was in order to let another student know that it was "no problem" for him to give to a student in need a dollar. What a punk ass little piece of sh*t!
There was nothing wrong with Rubio Jr's remark. Maybe you were beat up by some kid speaking Spanish as a kid and it's affecting you too much, but you're going off the deep end on this one.

Anyway, this whole situation is really quite stupid. Imagine if this were two white kids speaking Italian or Greek to one another. Do you think they would have been suspended? Of course not.

Moreover, did anyone else notice that the student was essentially suspended for saying ONE WORD of Spanish in the hallway ("problema")? Nothing seemed to happen to the other kid...

Disturbing, to say the least. And that something like this can still happen in 2005 is very scary.

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Rude. It was rude to talk to someone else in a language they both understand? What kind of a silly idea is that?

I can understand the school not wanting conversations the teachers don't understand but that has been a problem as long as we have had schools. Kids have always found a way to try to keep from being understood by teachers, from speaking Italian to pig latin. Unless the kids have been a continual problem there isn't much the school can do about it.

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Sturgis wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:
I agree with Roxxxanne. Spanish already is a de facto second language in most urban areas of the USA. And rightly so, I believe.

.

Good, I will remember that when you arrive at the hospital and your doctor cannot speak English and you cannot speak whatever language they are speaking.

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Most hospitals in areas where language might be a problem have interpreters to deal with exactly this problem. I know a couple people that do that as their job.

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A few people have made the point that speaking in a foreign language when everyone else in the room speaks English is rude, i.e. not polite. I would submit that when one is addressed in a particular language (be it Soanish, English, Cantonese or Swahili) it is rude and impolite to answer in English if the respondee is capable of responding in the language in which the quyestion was asked. That is just simple courtesy. If someone says to me, "Wie gehts?" I don't answer, "Just fine, and you?" I will say, "Gut, und mit ihnen?"

What the hell kind of jingoistic chauvinism is this that Sturgis seems to be spouting?

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I'm with Merry Andrew here.

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Merry Andrew wrote:

"Wie gehts?" I don't answer, "Just fine, and you?" I will say, "Gut, und mit ihnen?"

As I'm not that good in German, I would say: Gut, und du? :wink:

Am I going to be suspended?

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No. you're not suspended, Francis. 'du' = "tu" en Francais; "ihnen" here = "vous." Obviously, it all depends on whom you are speaking to. In your case, could I presume to say "du" or "tu"?

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You presume so well, Andy...

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Merry Andrew wrote:

What the hell kind of jingoistic chauvinism is this that Sturgis seems to be spouting?

The school itself has rules. The rules are well defined and if a student cannot or will not adhere to them then an appropriate action is in order. As a person who taught for more than a quarter of a century, I know of which I speak.

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JustanObserver wrote:

Sturgis wrote:
You are in a movie theater, theater employee starts to talk to another employee in a foreign language.

Now I think your just going off the deep end. Are you talking about while your in the movie? If so, everyone needs to be quiet. It doesn't matter what language the person speaks, it would be rude. Or are you talking about just two employees working the counter speaking Spanish? In that case, I'd agree. That would be inappropriate (unless the customer speaks Spanish, in which case it would just be common senese to communicate with the person in their own language...something I've done plenty of times back when I used to work at McDonalds as a kid).

Sturgis wrote:
...the school been trying to give Mr.Rubio and all its students skills for living in the world. These skills do not include intentional rudeness. Mr. Rubio should be grateful he was not expelled.

Expelled? What the hell is wrong with you? The kids were having a private conversation between the two of them in the hallway, no less... and your talking about expulsion? The school can have policies about speaking other languages in class, but schools cannot regulate what language the students can speak in private conversations amongst themselves between class (at least no more than what the Constitution would allow prevented, such as hate speech, fighting words, etc). Saying the kid could have been expelled for that is a little disturbing. Should students be caned for littering? How about slapped for sass talk?
---(I'm just joking there, don't go nuts on me)

Sturgis wrote:
In a park or as a restaurant patron it is fine, but a student or an employee is obliged to have decency. Mr. Rubio has failed.

Jeez man, "Mr. Rubio has failed"? The kid answered a question in the language it was asked (being capable of speaking both languages), and it was in order to let another student know that it was "no problem" for him to give to a student in need a dollar. What a punk ass little piece of sh*t!
There was nothing wrong with Rubio Jr's remark. Maybe you were beat up by some kid speaking Spanish as a kid and it's affecting you too much, but you're going off the deep end on this one.

Anyway, this whole situation is really quite stupid. Imagine if this were two white kids speaking Italian or Greek to one another. Do you think they would have been suspended? Of course not.

That's me all right always going off the deep end.
I see that you agreed with me when I commented on the store situation of two employees communicating in another language with each other. I am with you on the point of speaking to the customer in that language if the customer is speaking to them in that language. In a school, this school in particular, we are led to believe all the students have a working command of English.

You will be happy to know, that no, I was never beaten or bullied by a Spanish speaking person as a child...guess you will have to rework the psychiatric analysis you have on me.

Lastly, if two students were conversing in Greek or Italian I would take the same view. The school has rules. Both students know the rules.

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Sturgis wrote:

Merry Andrew wrote:

What the hell kind of jingoistic chauvinism is this that Sturgis seems to be spouting?

The school itself has rules. The rules are well defined and if a student cannot or will not adhere to them then an appropriate action is in order. As a person who taught for more than a quarter of a century, I know of which I speak.

As a person who taught for more than a quarter of a century, you should realize that education involves much more than simply following rules based on ignorance.

In point of fact, 'no problema' is English, just as 'sukoshi' and thousands upon thousands of other borrowed words are. I myself, use it sometimes and I'm located far from any Spanish language influence.

Results 1 - 10 of about 26,000 English pages for "no problema".

The government of the USA is screaming for translators and the schools serve up this kind of crap.

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JTT -- I particularly agree with your choice of phraseology in "rules based on ignorance." Ignorance leads to fear. I've noticed that people who speak no other language than their own tend to be slightly paranoid when confronted with a language they do not understand. They always seem to suspect that if a person isn't speaking English, then he/she must be either saying something nasty about them or perhaps plotting something. Any school rule which prohibits the use of a language other than English between peers is certainly based on ignorance. What's more, I suspect that a good lawyer might be able to make a case for such a rule being unconstitutional.

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JTT -- I particularly agree with your choice of phraseology in "rules based on ignorance." Ignorance leads to fear. I've noticed that people who speak no other language than their own tend to be slightly paranoid when confronted with a language they do not understand. They always seem to suspect that if a person isn't speaking English, then he/she must be either saying something nasty about them or perhaps plotting something. Any school rule which prohibits the use of a language other than English between peers is certainly based on ignorance. What's more, I suspect that a good lawyer might be able to make a case for such a rule being unconstitutional.

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Quote:

Any school rule which prohibits the use of a language other than English between peers is certainly based on ignorance. What's more, I suspect that a good lawyer might be able to make a case for such a rule being unconstitutional.

I agree, especially for public schools who should not have
the authority to such nonsense.

I wonder how sturgis would react, if public schools had rules
to prohibit homosexual teachers. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

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My question: If all other immigrants that came here learned the American language, why can't everyone? Too much time is spent trying to be politicaly correct that it is becoming nauseating. I also believe that when we go to a different country we should make an honest attempt to try and speak their langauge. If we are going to stay then we should master that language as best we can.
When my Grandparents came from Italy, they learned American. The only place they spoke Italian was at home. They were proud to be in America. When my Aunt came from France, my uncle forbade her to speak French in public(both my cousins were brought up bi-lingual). When my mother-in-law came from France she learned to speak and understand American(I think she pretended not to know American just to ignore my father-in-law) and my wife was brought up tri-lingual. All speak the American language.
Did the principal go overboard? Yea I think she did. If the student was asked a question in the hall by a teacher and he responded in Spanish? I'd say she was right. If the student initiated a conversation with a teacher(who was not a spanish speaking teacher and he was aware of it) I'd say she was right.
We need to stop being so politicaly correct. Capici?

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So you guys are trying to tell me the first amendment only applies if you say it in English?

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ralph, the student is bilingual - speaking English and Spanish
fluently. Why on earth should he only speak English because
a few ignorant people are offended by it?

My child has started learning Spanish in Kindergarten, and
she is learning German additionally. She will speak Spanish or German with other children in school, however, her first
language always will be English.

What's politically incorrect with speaking more than one
language and using it?

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Student suspended for speaking Spanish in school hallway

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