Offended by Christmas?

dys, and J_B,

Thanx for telling me.

Jespah,

I am so sorry Embarrassed

. I didn't know you were a she.

Ok, Dys,

If I remember correctly, you are one that has said (maybe agreed with) the premise that religion is a choice so it's not discrimination if you make fun of someone because of it. Now, if I am wrong in this, I apologize.

So, my question is this, if these things that jespah described happening to her had happened because she was black (for instance) and not because she was Jewish, you would then call it bigotry, right? But, since religion is a choice, you wouldn't call it bigotry

0 Replies

Well I do enjoy the 2 days I get off work due to the hoilday at hand.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

dys, and J_B,

Thanx for telling me.

Jespah,

I am so sorry . I didn't know you were a she.

Ok, Dys,

If I remember correctly, you are one that has said (maybe agreed with) the premise that religion is a choice so it's not discrimination if you make fun of someone because of it. Now, if I am wrong in this, I apologize.

So, my question is this, if these things that jespah described happening to her had happened because she was black (for instance) and not because she was Jewish, you would then call it bigotry, right? But, since religion is a choice, you wouldn't call it bigotry

I've never even hinted at such a claim nor do I agree with it. And yes I would say that Jespah's experience denote bigotry. On the other hand I also think all tribes of the Abraham clan are befudled including Judaism. On a personal level I happen to like Jespah so I tend to forgive her religious sillyness. Oh, and one other thing while I'm here, I'm not sure that I ever mentioned that I once kissed Mary Magdalene, on the mouth.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

jespha,

My point: NO ONE should be demeaned, belittled, laughed at, etc., for their faith.

How do you feel about Christmas pageants in public schools, MA?

0 Replies

Dys,

I'm glad I said if I remembered correctly because I didn't know for sure if you had been part of that discussion. But thank you for answering me.

J_B,

I do not feel any child should be made to participate if they/their parents do not want them to. I do think they are all right for those that want them.

0 Replies

Questioner wrote:

Does this knowledge mean that those who are now flipping out by the Shrub's statement are merely doing so out of a fundamental dislike for the current regime?

Also, I may have missed the complete quote by The Hedge, but I don't recall him saying he had a sit-down discussion with God. If he did, then kindly disregard the previous two posts by me, for the man is obviously addled.

Quote:

President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq - and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals.

In Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, a major three-part series on BBC TWO (at 9.00pm on Monday 10, Monday 17 and Monday 24 October), Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq " And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

There are numerous sources but I thought the BBC source would be neutral enough.

I can't speak for everyone who is flipping out, but I'm flipping out because the President of the United States is addled.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

J_B,

I do not feel any child should be made to participate if they/their parents do not want them to. I do think they are all right for those that want them.

Then what should the kids who aren't participating do during music class, art class, and whatever else class time is dedicated to getting ready for the Christmas pageant?

I grew up in a very small town. Almost everyone was Christian. There was one Jewish family who had to drive to Massachusetts to attend services, there being no Jewish services nearby. We didn't understand why they just didn't go to our church, we would have welcomed them! They could have skipped the part about Jesus if they wanted to but they didn't have to go all the way to another state to attend services. I was so naive... I was still naive when I moved to another part of the state where there was a larger Jewish population and two Temples, one Orthodox and one Reformed. I was jealous when they got extra school days off for their High Holy days. What's the deal with that? They get Christmas and Good Friday off too!

Then I moved to IL and got an education in multi-culturalism. Not only did I choose to live in a predominately Jewish area, we also have a thriving Asian (mostly non-Christian) community and a minority hispanic (mostly Christian) community. I'm about 30 mins from Chicago where ethnic neighborhoods coexist with some, but not many, ethnic/religious issues.

It's naive to think that those who don't want to participate IN THEIR OWN PUBLIC SCHOOL ACTIVITIES (yes, I'm yelling) can just sit on the sidelines and let those who want to continue with traditions that never should have become traditions in the first place to simply carry on. It was never ok for Christmas pageants to take place in public schools. Tradition for tradition sake is not always good.

0 Replies

Quote:

I do not feel any child should be made to participate if they/their parents do not want them to. I do think they are all right for those that want them.

In other words, non-believers and other minorities can sit quietly in a corner.

Should Jewish or Muslim or atheist teachers be required to produce Christian Pagents as a condition of their employment in public school?

0 Replies

J_B,

Whoa! No need to yell girl. I certainly didn't mean that these other children just had to sit quietly by on the sidelines. Quite the contrary, I think the right thing to do would be to offer them some special project that they would want to do. The Christmas Pageant doesn't have to be about the birth of Christ does it? Can't it be like a winter carnival, the story of Tiny Tim (is that his name?), etc.

I am all for compromise. The problem seems to be there is no compromise on this issue good enough to satisfy (if you will forgive the expression) your side of the fence on this.

0 Replies

Winter Pageant, fine.

Christmas Pagent is excluding and therefore offensive.

What happened to those many rooms in the heavenly mansion? Some people have been writing as though the rooms are reserved Christians and the rest of us will have to settle in tents somewhere.

0 Replies

Nothing wrong with a winter pageant, but the story of Tiny Tim is from Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" so that probably wouldn't fly. "Frosty the Snowman" is about the only thing that comes to mind.

When my girls were small we held 'Holiday Parties" on the last day before "winter break". I had signed up to organize the party and didn't have a clue how to be inclusive enough, so I decorated the entire room for a New Year's Party and we celebrated because the kids would be returning to school after Jan 1.

I'm not saying it's easy, but finding a special project that doesn't make kids feel excluded is very, very difficult.

0 Replies

What is this beeline for compromise between things with no natural compromise, for niceyness? There is an amoeba about...

0 Replies

osso,

I guess I don't quite understand what you mean. I don't offer compromise for niceyness. I offer compromise so that both sides are satisfied as much as they can be. Does it have to be one side getting what they want and the other side gets nothing? Isn't that the way some feel now about Christmas? Some want it as Christmas and some want it as something else. So, wouldn't the right thing to do be to find a compromise that both sides could agree to and end the discord over it?

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

osso,

I guess I don't quite understand what you mean. I don't offer compromise for niceyness. I offer compromise so that both sides are satisfied as much as they can be. Does it have to be one side getting what they want and the other side gets nothing? Isn't that the way some feel now about Christmas? Some want it as Christmas and some want it as something else. So, wouldn't the right thing to do be to find a compromise that both sides could agree to and end the discord over it?

And what would you suggest?

0 Replies

I still haven't gotten an answer as to the compromise that should be made in this situation.

It is not my opinion but a fact that this time of year is not just Christmas. If you want to say Merry Christmas, great, say it. But at a grocery store or a Target, you don't know for sure what your customer celebrates unless you know them well or ask them so Happy Holiday's is in order.

Why is this so bloody hard for you people to get?

0 Replies

Bella Dea wrote:

I still haven't gotten an answer as to the compromise that should be made in this situation.

It is not my opinion but a fact that this time of year is not just Christmas. If you want to say Merry Christmas, great, say it. But at a grocery store or a Target, you don't know for sure what your customer celebrates unless you know them well or ask them so Happy Holiday's is in order.

Why is this so bloody hard for you people to get?

Point, set, match, as far as I'm concerned. I did some thinking on it last night and I agree with your point entirely.

0 Replies

Hey, David~ Let me join the welcome wagon to A2K. I'm pretty close to you in southern Lake County, IL. I was in Racine last month spending a week with the Dominican nuns at the retreat center on the lake, lovely spot.

0 Replies

J_B wrote:

There are numerous sources but I thought the BBC source would be neutral enough.

I can't speak for everyone who is flipping out, but I'm flipping out because the President of the United States is addled.

Thanks for the quote. FYI, when it comes to the Shrub or America, the BBC is about as neutral as CNN.

0 Replies

J_B wrote:

Hey, David~ Let me join the welcome wagon to A2K. I'm pretty close to you in southern Lake County, IL. I was in Racine last month spending a week with the Dominican nuns at the retreat center on the lake, lovely spot.

Thanks, JB. It looks like I'll be spending a lot of time here.
I'm not too far from the lake myself. It sucks right now, but I'm sure it's beautiful in the summer.

0 Replies

I havnt read the whole thread.

How dare anybody be offended by by someone saying Merry Christmas!!
Its political correctness gone mad!!

Does that mean we cant celebrate our religion/beliefs because we are mostly white people and we may offend the colored minority who belive in other faiths religions!!!
Thats insane.
Surely religion is about love and tolerance, not stopping people following/celebrating what they want to.

Its Christmas, its our time to celebrate.

I for one have no problem with anybody else celebrating their religions, as long as they done tell me I cant celebrate mine!!!

How dare they be offended, if they are they can stop celebrating their religions as Im offended by them!!!

0 Replies

Offended by Christmas?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know