Ture torture

I am not comparing Saddams actions to US actions.

No, I am not. I am suggesting that the liberal use of the word "torture" has become meaningless as they appear to have no real understanding of the definition anymore.

McGentrix wrote:

No, I am not. I am suggesting that the liberal use of the word "torture" has become meaningless as they appear to have no real understanding of the definition anymore.

Had that been your intention, you need not have mentioned the "stress position" torture techniques at Abu Ghraib -- a reference to Saddam's grisly methods would have been sufficient. By bringing up American torture techniques, however, you wanted to demonstrate that there's "torture" and then there's "TORTURE" (or "ture torture"). That's not a question of definitions (both, after all, can be torture), that's just a rather feeble tu quoque argument.

Yes, I did need to mention it to demonstrate the difference between what liberals consider torture (anything that causes discomfort, humiliation or pain apparently) and what "true torture" is.

There is no doubt that there has been some degree of torture done by American and coalition troops and I in no way condone or excuse it. I have not tried to.

However, not every abuse in the prisons in Iraq qualifies as torture either. Beatings are abuse. Extreme abuse even. Not torture though.

I have created this thread to chronicle the accusations of torture by Saddam during his reign of terror though, not to discuss American abuse of prisoners. We have plenty of those threads already.

The left uses the word "torture" when referring to events that aren't that far removed from a hazing incident at a college fraternaty.

Yes, I did need to mention it to demonstrate the difference between what liberals consider torture (anything that causes discomfort, humiliation or pain apparently) and what "true torture" is. There is no doubt that there has been some degree of torture done by American and coalition troops and I in no way condone or excuse it. I have not tried to. However, not every abuse in the prisons in Iraq qualifies as torture either. Beatings are abuse. Extreme abuse even. Not torture though.

1. Beating someone's legs until they would require surgery to be able to walk again. Then allowing them to hang handcuffed from the ceiling until they die. Torture or not torture?

Four Algerians who are facing deportation from the UK on the grounds that they are a threat to national security were granted bail yesterday by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission. Home Office lawyers had claimed that they were involved in "creating the climate, the motivation and the opportunity that led to the" London bombing. They were bailed as it emerged that the British security and intelligence agencies accept evidence about suspected terrorists, even though it might have been obtained through torture abroad.

The Bush administration decided not to charge Jose Padilla with planning to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" in a US city because the evidence against him was extracted using torture on members of al-Qaida. Padilla was indicted on the lesser charges of supporting terrorism abroad instead. Government officials said he could not be charged with the bomb plots because neither of the captured al-Qaida leaders from whom the information came could be used as witnesses, as they could open up charges from defence lawyers that their statements resulted from torture. An internal review by the CIA inspector general found that Mohammed had suffered excessive use of "waterboarding", a technique involving near drowning which entails the detainee being strapped to a board and then submerged.

I do think that some here think that Saddam's actions excuse torture by US personnel and allies.

Are you one such, Tico?

I already know that McGentrix is.

There is no doubt that there has been some degree of torture done by American and coalition troops and I in no way condone or excuse it.

Ticomaya wrote:

The left uses the word "torture" when referring to events that aren't that far removed from a hazing incident at a college fraternaty.

Where did you fit in your frat's naked human pyramid, Tico? I'd like to think you were at the apex, just like the cherry on top of a sundae.

Not my frat. I'm referring to stories I've heard about some of the frats in Ann Arbor, Joe.

Of course not. But the point is when the leftists refer to the "stress position" techniques used by the US as "torture," they trivialize the word and essentially equate what the US does with what Saddam did.

Ticomaya wrote:

Not my frat. I'm referring to stories I've heard about some of the frats in Ann Arbor, Joe.

I wouldn't know anything about that. I didn't attend the Univ. of Michigan as an undergraduate and I certainly didn't belong to a frat when I was in law school. But while I can't speak from experience on this issue, perhaps you'd like to share some of your own hazing stories, Tico.