Define God

@Romeo Fabulini,

I wrote:

As far as a 'testing ground' is concerned, who do you say is administering the 'test'?

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

God of course! Who do you think the drill instructor is, Bugs Bunny?..

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone (James 1:13)

Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat (Luke 22:31)

Do you need more?

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@neologist,

What if God is a word for privacy instead of publicity?

Anyone see the succulent Hollywood (USA) movie "Celebrity" (1998)?

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@neologist,

Quote:

Why should I have to sort and search through multiple translations

Because you don't trust me ... or maybe because you have suspicions in terms of the texts.

Quote:

... just to correct your errors.

People that are missing the semantics (the point) usually deal with the syntax (spelling correction and placing the comma).

Quote:

Tell us where you found your citations so they can be evaluated.

'The King James Version of the Holy Bible' - can be downloaded at: www.davince.com/bible

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@Herald,

I wrote:

Why should I have to sort and search through multiple translations

Herald wrote:

Because you don't trust me ... or maybe because you have suspicions in terms of the texts.

For one thing: common courtesy.
For another, I am not able to parse the intent of your citations, to whom they apply, or how they lead to your conclusion. You seem to have included statements about Jesus with statements applying only to his father.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Like I've said before, . . . . JW's... . .say . . .the Bible is too complex for ordinary people to understand so they might as well give up on it!

Nothing I have ever said.
At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. (Matthew 11: 25)

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I am not able to parse the intent of your citations

The citations are not 'mine' - these are texts from the Scripture: 1 to 1.

neologist wrote:

You seem to have included statements about Jesus with statements applying only to his father.

By Father you mean God the Father ... or Joseph. This is not so important.
The real study that has to be done is to define Who/What is God ... and what is the whole story all about.

Case 1: God is our intelligence at a higher level (personal perception of the things). In this case the texts of the Bible should be interpreted from this point of view.

Case 2: God is another Intelligent Life Form (most probably the ILF before us) and this direct memory access communication with the prophets is some kind of psychotronic connection, sending messages to our ILF. (It is not obligatory for the communication to be in real time. The messages might have been sent million ... and even billion years ago ... and having reached us in the end).

Case 3: God is the Supreme Intelligence of the Universe, and if the Supreme Intelligence has decided that we are in a big trouble and should consider the things seriously ... most probably it is so. If God has decided to send us emergency messages this means that we have no time (just don't ask me for what) and there are things of top priority concerning all of us (not personally one-by-one, as is the usual interpretation).

Case 4: God does not exist (neither as common space of our own intelligence, nor as an objective presence outside our conscience). In this case the texts of the Bible are result of the slack imagination of the prophets and misuse with prophecies ... and should be reconsidered from that point of view.

Case 5: God is something else that our conscience does not have even access to ... and hence we are unable to understand at the current stage of development of our mind.

1 Reply

Romeo said- JW's say the Bible is too complex for ordinary people to understand..
Neologist replied

Quote:

Nothing I have ever said

Well how do you explain this quote from the JW's Watchtower magazine?-
"If you try to study the Bible without our help, you go into darkness"- (Watchtower 15 Sep 1910,page 298)

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Neologist said:

Quote:

"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13)

We know that! Temptation is Satan's job and God is using him to see which people will break.
"The devil prowls round like a roaring lion" (1 Pet 5:8 )
For example as people clamber painfully and wearily over this assault course called "earth", Satan injects thoughts into their heads like "Give up, you don't need this hassle...God is nasty for putting you on this course so reject him"..

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

JW's say the Bible is too complex for ordinary people to understand..
I wrote:
Nothing I have ever said
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Well how do you explain this quote from the JW's Watchtower magazine?-
"If you try to study the Bible without our help, you go into darkness"- (Watchtower 15 Sep 1910,page 298)
Do you think that harsh?
Perhaps it would offend the delicate egos of preachers who blessed the cannons of the Great War. Yet, few would argue the events of last century represent spiritual enlightenment.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Temptation is Satan's job and God is using him to see which people will break.

Are you saying God appointed Satan to test?

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Romeo observed- Temptation is Satan's job and God is using him to see which people will break

Neologist came back with:

Quote:

Are you saying God appointed Satan to test?

The word "appointed" is yours not mine mate.. Wink

God has already busted Satan's ass once-
"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him." (Revelation 12:7-9)

And God can jail him or let him out anytime he pleases-
"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore" (Revelation 20:7/8)

So in that sense God can be said to be using Satan to test people. foe example Satan has already convinced JW's that Jesus was crucified on a stake (phallic symbol) and that church spires, christmas, easter, birthdays and life-saving blood transfusions are evil.
So the great contest goes on.. Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/jesus_vs_satan.gif

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Sorry you don't like the word 'appointed'.

So God is using Satan to test.

Tell us, if Satan had not first rebelled, in what sense would the earth be a testing ground?

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@Herald,

I have explained this before. Check the Wikipedia article on the Tetragrammaton if you have trouble believing me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton The name Jehovah literally transcribed means "He who causes to exist". Jehovah further explains at Exodus 3:14 "I will be what I will be" Which may be more easily understood by reading Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So God defines himself. His purpose stated in Genesis has not changed.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

I have explained this before. Check the Wikipedia article on the Tetragrammaton if you have trouble believing me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton The name Jehovah literally transcribed means "He who causes to exist". Jehovah further explains at Exodus 3:14 "I will be what I will be" Which may be more easily understood by reading Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So God defines himself. His purpose stated in Genesis has not changed.

Which means: To entrap...and exact dreadful punishment for doing anything that offends the god.

Neo...there may actually be a GOD...but the god of the Bible is a joke...a rather sad joke, oxymoron thought that may seem.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

So God defines himself. His purpose stated in Genesis has not changed.

Frank Apisa wrote:

Neo...there may actually be a GOD...but the god of the Bible is a joke.

I agree with Frank - not only the definition of God in Genesis is a joke, the whole Genesis is a masterpiece of the entertainment industry.
Yet, I believe that there is intelligence, no matter whether omnipresent (with universal access) or delivered as relay torch from ILF to ILF. There is no way for the universe to be a stupid casino saloon and at the same time to be able to create or develop by evolution or design somehow the intelligence ... at least our own is existing for sure.

1 Reply

@Herald,

If you discount Genesis, basically you discount the entire Bible.
Other than that:
I am unable to understand what you may or may not believe about the existence of God.
I always considered myself reasonably smart. So I must not be on your level.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

The name Jehovah literally transcribed means "He who causes to exist".

That's one possible meaning, dependent on the inflection of the verb root HWH.

It may also mean "he who is, or he who exists" using another inflection of the verb.

neologist wrote:

Jehovah further explains at Exodus 3:14 "I will be what I will be"

According to your own source, the most basic translation is "I am that I am," and can also be translated as "I will be what I am."

The name doesn't appear in Isaiah 55:11.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

neologist wrote:

The name Jehovah literally transcribed means "He who causes to exist".

InfraBlue wrote:

That's one possible meaning, dependent on the inflection of the verb root HWH.

It may also mean "he who is, or he who exists" using another inflection of the verb.

Actually, I prefer "He who causes to become"

neologist wrote:

Jehovah further explains at Exodus 3:14 "I will be what I will be"

InfraBlue wrote:

According to your own source, the most basic translation is "I am that I am," and can also be translated as "I will be what I am."

Or "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be." To paraphrase the Cable Guy: "Get'erDone! or Nike: "Just do it!

InfraBlue wrote:

The name doesn't appear in Isaiah 55:11.

No, but few would deny that Jehovah is the one speaking.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

If you discount Genesis, basically you discount the entire Bible.

Not necessarily, yet all these things with God and his 'chosen people' to the 'promised land' are very suspicious (to be the original Word of God). At His level of resoning and view of the world He could hardly specify anything in particular in His instructions & directions, if any. What about the naivistic explanation of the 'creation' of the world - as a narration it resembles the stories of the Aborigines.
Besides everything is too egocentric, too wicked and soaked with mania for power and invasion that it is in contradiction with everything the Bible is all about. The Bible is not about land & donkeys, it is about the lies & the truth, the greed & the generosity, the cruelty & the mercy, the wisdom & the stupidity; the salvation & the waste of life; the grasped & the lost opportunities; the morality & the corruption, the virtues & the evil mindedness, etc.
There is no way for one and the same author (the Word of God speaking through the prophets) to have written the Genesis and some of the later texts.

neologist wrote:

I am unable to understand what you may or may not believe about the existence of God.

I am looking for the truth - what is this whole story with and around the Bible all about. 'Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free' {John, 8:32}.

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@Herald,

neologist wrote:

If you discount Genesis, basically you discount the entire Bible.

Herald wrote:

Not necessarily,. . . .I am looking for the truth - what is this whole story with and around the Bible all about. 'Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free' {John, 8:32}.

You are missing the point. If you pick and choose what you want from the Bible, you no longer have a source "beneficial for teaching" (2 timothy 3:16) Many nominal christians avoid considering the Hebrew writings because they are unable to reconcile what appears to be severe laws when compared to Jesus' acts of mercy. But a careful study reveals the veracity of the entire account.

1 Reply

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