Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 11:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You may replace my "guess" with any verb you wish; it's still the same question.

It is not exactly so. A statement based on inferences and on data and on verification and validation tests is much more different from a statement based on the 'first guess'. Very much different.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 12:07 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

All tears, pain, sorrow, and death will be removed in that heavenly New Jerusalem where Christians will live. This is the exact opposite of the curse that resulted from Adam's sin (see Gen. 3: verses 16 to19). The effects of the curse are removed, and all things are made new. God does not merely repair the creation, He re-creates it for His children to enjoy for all eternity.

Just as the disciples knew security when Jesus was there to take care of all their needs, we will know perfect peace and joy in heaven. Jesus is the king of peace. Jesus defeated death on the cross. The biggest fear of mankind is death. We just read where the Christians will not taste the second death. This fear is gone away. Death will no longer hang over the Christian. The Christian has eternal life (not death).

There won't be any reason to cry for in heaven. The devil and all his problems he brought upon the Christians have been thrown into the lake of fire. Every negative thing has been done away with.


What a bunch of hogwash! He can create a heaven without sin, but that's impossible on earth, because humans have free will AND Satan.

I guess free will and Satan will not exist in heaven.

Satan's influence in heaven will disappear, because god says so. But he's powerless on this planet, because......
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 12:09 pm
@Herald,
Quote:
A statement based on inferences and on data and on verification and validation tests is much more different from a statement based on the 'first guess'. Very much different.


How so? The only scientific data that exist is that space is expanding. What other inferences and data do you have that negates that scientific finding?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 12:27 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
You, of course, realize the Greek writing of that day had no punctuation; so the statement could also read, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise." That certainly makes more sense, since Jesus was dead for parts of 3 days and could not have been anywhere.


It’s not so cut and dried as you would have us believe, though.

According to Acts God saw to it that Jesus’ soul was not left in Hades, i.e. the abode of the dead. 1 Peter states that while in Hades he preached to the spirits there.

In Revelation it states that he was dead, but that now he is alive and holds the keys of death and Hades.

Your placement of a comma is self-serving. Other translators place commas after "I tell you", "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 12:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
The only scientific data that exist is that space is expanding.

Are you saying this in serious. We are not talking about the so called expansion of space here.
BTW what evidences do you have about the space expansion (becides the red shift in the light spectrum that may be an indication of some other phenomena)?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:03 pm
@Herald,
Quote:
Metric expansion is a key feature of Big Bang cosmology and is modeled mathematically with the FLRW metric. This model is valid in the present era only on large scales (roughly the scale of galaxy clusters and above). The expansion is a generic property of the universe we inhabit, though the reason we are expanding is explained by most cosmologists as having its origin in the end of the early universe's inflationary period which set matter and energy in the universe on an inertial trajectory consistent with the equivalence principle and Einstein's theory of general relativity (that is, the matter in the universe is separating because it was separating in the past). Additionally, the expansion rate of the universe has been measured to be accelerating; to explain this, physicists postulate a repulsive force of dark energy, which appears in the theoretical models as a cosmological constant. This acceleration of the universe has only recently become measurable. Due to recent measurements, it is now thought that up until about five billions years ago, the universe's expansion rate was actually decelerating due to the gravitational attraction of the matter content of the universe. According to the simplest extrapolation of the currently-favored cosmological model (known as "ΛCDM"), however, the dark energy acceleration will dominate on into the future.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Are we supposed to nod our heads sagely at that ci? Or are we meant to giggle.

I wasn't sure so I giggled.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:27 pm
@spendius,
Giggle all you want, because I giggle at your posts over 90% of the time.
This is what makes a2k so enjoyable!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What's up with the other 10%?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:35 pm
@spendius,
Makes no sense at all!
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Your "Metric expansion" post meant nothing to me. That's what made me giggle. It seemed quite funny that you thought it meant something to you.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:47 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Uploaded on Mar 24, 2010
In 1998, astrophysicists discovered a baffling phenomenon: the Universe is expanding at an ever-faster rate. Either an enigmatic force called dark energy is to blame or a reworking of gravitational theory is in order. In this new Science Bulletins video, watch a Fermilab team assemble the Dark Energy Camera, a device that could finally solve this space-stretching mystery.

Science Bulletins is a production of the National Center for Science Literacy, Education, and Technology (NCSLET), part of the Department of Education at the American Museum of Natural History. Each Bulletin is produced by AMNHs curatorial and scientific staff and a team of video producers, designers, writers, and educators using state-of-the-art technologies such as high-definition video and 3-D computer graphics to present the latest research.

For more information visit http://www.amnh.org


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 01:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's guffaw inducing. Followed by a good old fashioned coughing fit.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 02:20 pm
@Herald,
Okay, Herald, provide your answer based on
Quote:
A statement based on inferences and on data and on verification and validation tests is much more different
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 02:31 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
But mate, nobody has ever been able to figger out Revelation because it's so heavily-laced with metaphor, analogy and symbolism.
It would not have been written if it were not to be understood. I think I have a fair understanding myself.
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Personally I wouldn't want to be a "king over the earth" because the earth would mean nothing to me, I'd be glad to be off it and wash my hands of it and forget it..Smile
What you are saying, first, is that the magnificent creation of the earth is no longer good enough for anyone, let alone one of your grand personage.
And, second, even though God may offer you such a privileged position, you would decline it as beneath you.

I'm kinda glad you won't be there.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 02:38 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
It’s not so cut and dried as you would have us believe, though.

According to Acts God saw to it that Jesus’ soul was not left in Hades, i.e. the abode of the dead. 1 Peter states that while in Hades he preached to the spirits there.

In Revelation it states that he was dead, but that now he is alive and holds the keys of death and Hades.
But he was, in fact, dead. Therefore, the sinner could not have been with him on that day.
InfraBlue wrote:
Your placement of a comma is self-serving. Other translators place commas after "I tell you", "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
I hardly think the truth is self serving. Many translators have the mistaken idea that the soul, or some part of the personality, survives death. I have presented ample evidence to the contrary and will continue to post it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 02:58 pm
@neologist,
True; when there is no brain activity, the individual is pronounced 'dead.' That's Biology 101.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
How come you have not yet been---oh never mind.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 03:09 pm
Neologist said:
Quote:
(re Revelation)-I think I have a fair understanding myself...

(And re the "new heaven and earth")- I'm kinda glad you won't be there...

Firstly, which saves, Jesus or the Book of Revelation?
As for you having a "fair understanding of it", nah, all you're doing is repeating JW teachings parrot-fashion..Wink

Secondly you're glad we won't meet in the afterlife, which is exactly how i feel about JW's ..Wink
I mean, they'd rather let their kids die than have transfusions, so they're not my kind of people-
"I would answer yes to refusing a blood transfusion for myself or any of my dependents" (Neologist Aug 16 2006)

Do yourself a favour mate and get out of the JW's because they haven't done you a bit of good for all your years in their clutches, as you admit you're sometimes wrong and need to sharpen your understanding..Wink
"When I'm wrong, I fess up to it" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)
"I'm no genius..One of my main reasons for posting here is to sharpen my understanding" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)


At this point I'd say something like "Just you stick with me mate and i'll get you through the pearlies", but amazingly you said a while back-
"I'm not aiming for the "pearlies" (Neologist 23 Sep 013)

So if you don't want to come there's zilch I can do to help you..Wink
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Oct, 2013 03:23 pm
Neologist said:
Quote:
Many translators have the mistaken idea that the soul, or some part of the personality, survives death. I have presented ample evidence to the contrary and will continue to post it

So are JW's saying Jesus was fibbing when he said this?-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die" (John 11:26)

0 Replies
 
 

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