Define God

If god's authority is based on some foolish rules about eating one fruit over another, and it does no harm to anybody else, it's a stupid rule! Especially to penalize all of mankind for it.

Are christians allowed to eat fruit today? God's rules and conflicting messages are stupid and unwarranted when the penalty is greater than any "sin" that's based on god's judgement. All it proves is that he is not a fair and loving god. He's a stupid god, knowing full well they will eat the apple. Satan had nothing to do with it! It's god's law they broke.

If that's "free will," god knows nothing about human nature.

It's pretty well established that Moses compiled his writings in the 16th Century BC. Beyond this point, I must admit complete ignorance of whatever point you are trying to make.

I don't think that is very well established at all. Do you have any references?

mesquite wrote:

. . . In your opinion, what effect did eating the fruit have on Adam and Eve? By that I do NOT mean the consequences imposed upon them by the dude with the bad temper.

IMO, the consequence of disobedience and violating their innate conscience cost them not only their moral perfection but their physical perfection as well. As a result, all of their descendants have inherited their nature. This is the reason Jesus' sacrifice was necessary, for if a perfect man sinned, only another perfect man could take his place. BTW, all this was foretold at Genesis 3:15

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Not about to download a PDF and sort through it looking for connections.

Quote:

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” Leviticus 20-13

Maybe they thought that if it caught on they would be done for and become extinct.

Quote:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."
Leviticus 25:44ff

The Constitution legitimised the very same thing.

Quote:

"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death."
Deuteronomy 22:18ff

My father used to say that he would saw my leg off.

Quote:

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you."
Deuteronomy 20:10

Which still goes on to this day. It is only toned down because we can afford it to be. It gives the chattering classes something to sanctimoniously witter about. (see JTT).

Quote:

"I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments
for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate
me, down to the third and fourth generation."
Deuteronomy 5:9

Highest incarceration rates ever known in the USA.

Quote:

"Therefore, he who has any of the following defects may not come
forward: he who is blind, or lame, or who has any disfigurement
or malformation, or crippled foot or hand....he may not approach
the veil nor go up to the altar on account of these defects; he
shall not profane these things that are sacred to me, for it is
I, the Lord, who make them sacred."
Leviticus 21:18ff

They could not afford our welfare provisions. Are you an evolutionist or a pretty boy simpering with human compassion?

Quote:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
[2 Chronicles 15:12-13]

Dissenters were dangerous in marginal living conditions.

Quote:

What a beauty this monster is!

Who said It wasn't?

Do you sing in the choir at the Sisters of Mercy's mission house?

Frank Apisa quoted 12 tough OT verses plus this one spoken by Jesus:

Quote:

"For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
[Matthew 15:4-7]"
What a beauty this monster is!

Nice try mate, but no..
Firstly, the 12 Old T verses are just that - Old T - and were trashed by Jesus in the NEW T (the clue is in the name)
Secondly Jesus simply quoted the verse to prove a point against the snooty priests during a conversation with them.

But come to think of it, why shouldn't anybody who treats their parents bad get their asses busted?
Remember the scene in 'A Man Called Horse' where the indians banish an old woman tribal member to die in a blizzard because they regarded her as a useless mouth to feed? It wasn't fiction, it was practised by more than one tribe of Native Americans!
No wonder the Pilgrim Fathers had to go over there to civilise them..

cicerone imposter wrote:

Eating an apple can't possibly be the "sin." If sex is the sin, then god made man in his own image with a penis. Where does god get his "sexual" satisfaction? If he doesn't require sex to have a son, why did he make man and woman require sex to have children?

Where did you get the idea of an apple? Eating the fruit was a sin because of what the act represented, namely choosing to reject God's authority and take upon themselves the knowledge of good and bad.

But Jesus told us that he was not here to change that stuff.
You cannot get around that, Romeo.

Eating an apple can't possibly be the "sin." If sex is the sin, then god made man in his own image with a penis. Where does god get his "sexual" satisfaction? If he doesn't require sex to have a son, why did he make man and woman require sex to have children?

Where did you get the idea of an apple? Eating the fruit was a sin because of what the act represented, namely choosing to reject God's authority and take upon themselves the knowledge of good and bad.

BUT THEY DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT!

Why do you keep ignoring that important detail?

"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death."
Deuteronomy 22:18ff

neo, Try to use a wee bit of common sense. It's about fairness. To damn ALL humans forever because Adam and Eve ate an apple is beyond the pale. He did that again with the world flood. How can you as a fair-minded person say that was justified? Babies are innocent of any crime god may invent in his tiny brain. THAT'S A FACT.

Was one of the requirements to remain "religious" was to divorce yourself from common sense and logic?

When god kills infants with (world) floods and other natural disasters, when does that "another chance" come into being?

I'll be waiting for your response.

1964. The Goldwater phenomenon is plainly a most pecu- liar phenomenon, which needs explaining.

Everyone said a vote for Goldwater would bring an expanded war in Vietnam, race riots, etc.