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New US textbook aims to teach Bible as knowledge

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 09:12 am
Phoenix,

I would be very interested to hear his response. I am always very curious about how others view the US. Thanx!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 09:12 am
echi wrote:
To your first point, I don't find paranoia to be a reasonable objection.


Keep the snotty remarks to yourself, i referred specifically to a quote in the introductory post--it is more than obvious to any American citizen who is paying attention that there are significant number of people in this country who wish to promote christianity to a national moral imperative.

Quote:
Your second I think is a valid concern. However, I could support such a course provided it include all historical evidence, all popular interpretations through history, a study of why certain scriptures were included while others were left out.


And there is nothing in that article which suggests that this is the intent, hence my objection.

Quote:
The Bible has had a profound impact on our society. It seems reasonable enough to consider teaching it in school, where kids may actually get a chance to see it objectively. There is no chance of that happening in a church setting.


Your pollyanna view of what the intent of the course ought to be bears no relationship to what it such courses have been known to have been in the days when bible study and prayer were common in schools, nor is any apparent description of an objectivity that could be expected from the proposal mentioned. You also continue to peddle the canard which has become so common in this thread that the bible has had such a profound impact. It is one of many texts which make up the western canon, and by no means the most important. Interpretations of scripture are heavily influenced by the Platonic and Aristotelean views of Saul of Tarsus, and there is good historical reason to suggest that Origen was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy in his heavy editing of the "gospels" which became the accepted new testament canon. Quite apart from that, before the widespread use of moveable type in European society, the text of the bible was unknown to the great majority of the population. It has only become the obsession of fanatics since the Protestant Reformation.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 09:44 am
Momma wrote
Quote:

I'm beginning to think, au1929, you don't want the Bible taught period. People are being given a choice and you don't seem to want them to have this particular choice?

You are only half right. I do not want the bible taught in the public schools. Any "teaching" of the bible should be the purview of the religious organizations and at home. In a nation as diverse as the US it can only act as an agent for division.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:06 am
Even if it is purely an elective course and only offered to those age appropriate?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:20 am
Momma
What would be taught.
And yes I have read much of the old testament and three Psalms. Having spent several years in the yeshiva. I can't for the life of me understand what could be taught if religion is left out. The bible after all is a religious tract.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:39 am
au1929,

It is my understanding that they are going to be teaching it for its literary value?


dlowan had this to say about the subject:

Quote:
Comparative religion is fascinating, and the King james Bible is a literary masterpiece.


I am very curious about this statement. Many on these threads have posted how barbaric, etc. (bad) they feel God is. This statement goes completely against that. I'm a bit confused by it.

Quote:
"To teach religion objectively, you really have to teach the good, the bad and the ugly and this book only teaches the good," he said.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 10:58 am
setanta...

I am neither opposed nor in favor of a course such as this. I am, however, willing to listen to good, sound reason.
I guess the "paranoia" remark was a bit "snotty", as you put it. I wrote the statement as clearly as I knew how.
Your reaction has reminded me that fanatics live on both sides of this.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 12:34 pm
You don't need to make snotty remarks about fanaticism either, clown. I find your continued inability or unwillingness to acknowledge that literally millions of Americans want to impose their special species of christianity upon the nation as a whole to be, in the kindest constrution, obtuse.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 12:44 pm
Setanta wrote:
It has only become the obsession of fanatics since the Protestant Reformation.


You caught yourself in that one.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 12:48 pm
I caught no one in anything. It was not until the coincident events of the widespread use of the printing press and the Protestant Reformation that an individual reading of and adherence to an individual interpretation of the bible became common.

I am not responsible for your inability to comprehend a clear and simple sentence.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 12:56 pm
Setanta...

Why are you a member of this site if you're not interested in learning about different points of view? And again, I don't mean to seem "snotty", but if you have a strong argument then why resort to personal attacks? I'm willing to find out what your concerns are, but I could do without the hostility.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:03 pm
Setanta wrote:
It has only become the obsession of fanatics since the Protestant Reformation.
Quote:
You don't need to make snotty remarks about fanaticism either, clown.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:17 pm
echi wrote:
Setanta...

Why are you a member of this site if you're not interested in learning about different points of view? And again, I don't mean to seem "snotty", but if you have a strong argument then why resort to personal attacks? I'm willing to find out what your concerns are, but I could do without the hostility.


My "concerns" are not at issue here. And i find that you protest too much about "personal attacks," given that you have, so far, described me as paranoid and a fanatic. Pot, meet kettle. I do have a strong argument, and you have responded to it with slighting personal references. Now you object to the tenor of my response. Do you lack a sense of personal responsiblity, or perhaps of irony?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:19 pm
Your comparison is bootless. I know of no sect of christianity which holds that the individual may know the true meaning of god's will by scriptural perusal--all of them hold to certain creeds, and the contradiction thereof by individuals is held to be heretical. Therefore, it is not in the least unreasonable to describe a penchant for finding one's own personal interpretation of god's will in scripture to be fanatical.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:30 pm
echi - Hang around for awhile - you'll see that only Setanta gets to decide who's being "snotty" - and it's never himself. He's a legend in his own mind.

As to the bible being taught -

I think its ridiculous both to attest that the bible is not one of the most influential books ever written, and that it cannot be presented to students and studied as a literary piece (Song of Soloman and Psalms are both full of poetic allusion and metaphor, to name but two books), for its historical implications, as an icon for one of the largest religions on earth. Its paranoid, fanatical and just plain stupid to suggest the opposite - keep it out of schools, and away from young minds.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:50 pm
fanatic

adj : marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea; "rabid isolationist" [syn: fanatical, overzealous, rabid] n : a person motivated by irrational enthusiasm (as for a cause).

Based on what you've shown me, I think that fits you okay. (Maybe you use a different definition.) But you're right; it was retaliatory.

I do see your flat refusal to consider other points of view as at least a mild paranoia, given you have not, that I have seen, done much to reasonably defend your position. You have preferred to throw mud.
And I did not expect you to take my paranoia comment as any great insult. It isn't like I called you a "clown" or "snotty", or anything.
And I don't get your questioning my sense of personal responsibility. Can you explain?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 01:53 pm
If the Bible could be included with all the other religious books in a study, it would be hard to argue against it. Putting it in a class all alone in a government sanctioned setting is not the way to go. That is just a subterfuge to put religion in the schools. There are plenty of religious institutions more than willing to teach those so inclined.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 02:05 pm
edgar,

What if the class were purely elective and there were no public funds involved in teaching the class? Suppose the class would have to be paid for and not be funded by any other source? Would it be ok in this case?
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 02:07 pm
Setanta wrote:
It was not until the coincident events of the widespread use of the printing press and the Protestant Reformation that an individual reading of and adherence to an individual interpretation of the bible became common.

I am not responsible for your inability to comprehend a clear and simple sentence.


It was not necessary for a great mass of commoners to get hold of their own, personal copy for the Bible to have had a great impact on the West; much greater than any other book that I can think of. Am I forgetting something?

Also, you are right that I am largely unaware of the historical agendas of fundamentalists to incorporate Christianity into schools. Maybe your concern is less paranoid than I realize. But I am still secure enough to consider what their approach is today and confident that I could recognize any hidden agendas they may have (certainly, some of them do have). Why not give the benefit of the doubt and at least listen. I would at least expect the same from them. Otherwise what? Civil war?
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2005 02:15 pm
Momma, then I would say, fine, so long it is hosted by something other than a public school.
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