New US textbook aims to teach Bible as knowledge

Momma wrote

Quote:

How many books did you read in English class that were just stories? What about the DaVinci Code? There are some that believe the DaVinci Code is real. Others don't. Now, you obviously don't believe the Bible is truth.

So, what is it that you are so against? Afraid people can't make up their own minds? There are many that read the Bible that don't believe it is the Word of God. Many posters on these threads can quote the Bible quite well. Yet, they don't believe it to be true. The fact that they read it certainly hasn't changed their opinion of whether it is truth to them or not.

So, you would take the choice away from those that might view the book as just that, a book? Why?

School for learning it is not to be given, dare I call it facts, for the student to decide which he will accept and which he will not.
Regarding the DiVinci code it is a valid as the fairy tales in the bible.

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We have to agree to disagree, ebrown. I don't want any religious text in the schools at all.

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So au1929,

You ARE for taking this choice away? What about the ones that WANT to take this course? Why would you take away their choice?

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They won't lose a choice. There are thousands of people just waiting to teach it to them outside the schools.

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ebrown,

Yes, this is where we agree. Laughing

Phoenix,

If it were not for the fact that this is a completely elective course, and explained to be nonsectarian and nonreligious, I would tend to agree with you.

However, it seems that even though it looks like pains are being taken to make sure that this class does not go against the constitution, there will still be those that believe that the Christians are at it again.

And I applaud you edgar for being honest about how you view this. I may rarely agree with you but I can respect when someone (yes, there are many, just addressing edgar in this particular point) is honest.

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Momma wrote

You ARE for taking this choice away? What about the ones that WANT to take this course? Why would you take away their choice?

There are more than enough places where one who is interested can study and learn about Christianity or any other religion. The public school system is not one of them. As to, the old and new testament they are simply religious tracts and more myth than history. Maybe urban legends would be more to the point.

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Well then, I suppose we should take all the Greek mythology out of the classrooms too? Since those are definitely mythology? Wait, there are those that actually believe there are all those Greek gods. And they worship these gods. Is that a religion too?

Again, you are taking away a CHOICE. You don't have to take this course. It is purely ELECTIVE. You know, kind of like I have been told about abortion. Against abortion, then don't have one. Against this class, then don't take it. Can you tell me the difference?

I would probably agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that it is elective and pains are being taken to keep religion out of it. Like I said. It is a compromise. One I can accept. Why can't you?

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edgarblythe wrote:

They won't lose a choice. There are thousands of people just waiting to teach it to them outside the schools.

Edgar, that's is my point exactly.

Kids can learn about religion in a classroom or in a revival meeting. I will tell you from experience, the classroom is a far better place.

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Momma
Regarding Greek mythology. It is called what it is and not taught as truth.
The bible on the other hand is taught as truth and it too is mythology.

Momma wrote

Quote:

I would probably agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that it is elective and pains are being taken to keep religion out of it.

That would be quite a trick take religion out of the bible. Laughing

In any event and under no circumstances do I see a need or value to the teaching biblical tracts in public schools.

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I disagree that the class will make it better. The class will not tell the kids it's a collection of myths any more than the evangelists will. That's not going to be the purpose of a class on the Bible in a public school. Better they learn it outside of the school, if they learn it at all.

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au1929,

The class is NOT teaching that the Bible is truth. Why do you keep assigning something to this that it seems great pains are being taken to keep out?

It is NOT being taught as religion, truth, etc. Still I ask, you seem to be getting what many would want here; choice and the religion end being taken out of it. This is not enough of a compromise for you?

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edgarblythe wrote:

I have to side with au on this. It is just an insidious way to get the Bible in school. Anybody wishing to know about the Bible has ample opportunities already. If anybody is paying attention, the atheists and agnostics on a2k know as much about it as the believers. Whay is that? Because it is already a pervasive part of the culture to the extent that one almost breaths Bibles from infancy on.

This atheist on A2K did read the Bible in religion class in school. Religion classes in Germany are similar to American Sunday school, except that they are integrated into the official curriculum. (We don't separate church and state to the extent that you do.) So your argument works both ways: Yes, people who didn't learn about the bible in school can learn about it elsewhere. But it is also true that sectarian instruction generally does not brainwash children into becoming religionists.

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In America, the insertion of religion is but a way of shoving science aside.

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edgarblythe,

That is a rather widely painted statement. I have never thought of religion as a way of shoving science aside. There will always be science as there will always be religion.

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I paint it wide, because it is the aim of ID believers in general. You as an individual may not be like that. If so, you are an exception, in my mind.

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But this is not about ID. The course does explicitly not assert that the Bible has any scientific value.

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The question for me is why would you teach a stand alone class on just the bible?

If you want to talk about religious influences in art or literature then you have to do more than just the bible. Greek and Roman art was in support of a different religion but was a major influence on western art. Sure there is a lot of religious art but the bible didn't create the art nor create the styles used in that art. Schools in the 1700s and 1800s taught Greek and Latin for the very real reason that the classic literature was from a time before the modern bible.

To me any class on the arts or literature requires contrast and compare. What is the point of studying the influence of just the bible? The great artists were not restricted to that as an influence. Why restrict the discussion of their works to that?

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Doesn't history class restrict the subject to history? There is another thread about not teaching it in science class because it is not science.

The thing that seems to be either forgotten or ignored here is IT IS A COMPLETELY ELECTIVE course. Everyone can chose to or chose not to take this course.

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Thomas wrote:

But this is not about ID. The course does explicitly not assert that the Bible has any scientific value.

I wonder if Thomas is being disingenuous, or naive. Allow me to be charitable and assume the latter, suggesting that he has no conception of the force of will of the movement to create an American theocracy.

From the article quoted in the initial post:

Quote:

On the other side, Dennis Cuddy, a Christian conservative who has worked as a consultant for the U.S. Department of Education, said the book raised doubts about God and prompted students to ask the wrong questions.

"If you are going to teach the Bible, are you going to teach it as if it were the word of God? At the least, it should be taught as truthful. It shouldn't be presented as something that is false," he said. (emphasis added)

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parados wrote:

The question for me is why would you teach a stand alone class on just the bible?

Why not?

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New US textbook aims to teach Bible as knowledge

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