scary little changes

gustavratzenhofer wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Sozobe,

Like I said, the god of Islam is not the one True God. So, no, I don't want a false god on money

Statements like that drive me friggin' crazy.

Sometimes you have to just sit back and enjoy the comedy. Laughing

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Gus,

Then don't read my statements. You know how I feel about all this I am sure.

I believe that most of the founding fathers were Christians. If they were Christian, they would not completely lay aside their Christianity. You can pull up all the stuff you want off the internet, and so can I. We can both find things to back up our assertions.

It doesn't change what I believe, whether anyone thinks it is irrational or rational. I can say I think it's irrational to not believe in God. But, I don't feel I have the right to tell anyone that anymore than they have the right to tell me I am not rational in my beliefs.

I have already said I can agree to the separation of church and state to a degree.

And, I do not believe God condones abortion. I have posted that before. This link will tell you why:

http://www.gotquestions.org/abortion-Bible.html

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Wow Momma!

So in spite of what Jesus said (according to the Gospel of Luke)...

I guess you can serve God and Money!

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ebrown_p wrote:

Wow Momma!

So in spite of what Jesus said (according to the Gospel of Luke)...

I guess you can serve God and Money!

God and money go on different sized plates, and god is ususally eaten with a dessert fork. Money, of course is eaten with a salad fork.
For the main course of "Self Righteous Indignation on Wonder Bread", use your grubby little hands, and don't forget the "Miracle Whip."

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Momma, back on page 11 or 12 or ??? I fully answered your question about WHAT IF, no comment?

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J_B Wrote:

Quote:

Momma, IF the founding fathers wanted a theocracy they would have written a declaration creating one. They didn't. To wonder or suppose what life would be like today if the last 230 years of US history had taken place under a theocracy is an exercise in futility. You might as well ask what we would be thinking today if the Revolution never took place and we were still a British colony. It isn't what they intended, it isn't the basis of our government, and to wonder what life would be like if it was is ludicrous.

Is this the one you mean, J_B? If it is, I did answer this just a few more posts down from it I believe.

If this isn't the one, I couldn't find anything else on 11 or 12.

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J_B wrote:

If we were living in a theocracy (and had been since the end of the Revolution) I'm sure I would be part of a vibrant underground network whose members worshipped (or not) in cellars, darkened rooms, and secret safe-houses in the faith tradition of their choosing. This is exactly what happened in Cuba, the Soviet Union, and China where worship was prohibited. If I lived in Afghanistan under the Taliban and was forced to live under their theocratic laws, I would dedicate my life to working with the underground to bring sanity (religious freedom) to the people.

I fervently believe in the freedom of religion and the freedom from religion for those who do not have a faith. I would believe what I believe if the US were a theocracy or not. I do not believe in religious freedom because I have it. I simply believe in religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

nope... this one

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J_B,

I am sorry. Thank you for answering my question. I understand you much more fully now. I guess what I was wanting to know was if some were sticking to the separation of church and state simply because it was in the Constitution or if it was something they truly believed.

Thank you again and I am sorry I didn't catch this sooner.

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J_B, It appears that Momma Angel's idea of freedom of religion is that everyone is free to practice her religion as she sees fit.

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Mesquite,

That is not true and you know it. I have compromised with you about the pledge of allegiance.

I can't believe you posted that. You know that is not how I feel. I am very clear about my feelings.

We are all free to practice what we want. I told you I don't want God taken out but if I was given something I could live with I would. But, of course, I want it to stay. How much more honest can someone be? geesh!

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What about the part where you said that the law of the Christian God should supersede any law written by man, Momma? Your idea of the land of the Christian God and my idea of the land of the free and the home of the brave are in direct conflict.

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MA, what I wrote pretty much sums up the image you project regarding separation of church and state and freedom of religion. You appear to have a very difficult time separating in your own mind your religious convictions and the governance of a nation.

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J_B,

You will have to be more specific, if you don't mind. What exactly is in direct conflict?

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Mesquite,

I thought we were talking about taking God out of things? That's what I have been talking about. I'm not talking about anything other than that.

I have never once said anyone does not have the right to practice or not practice their religion.

I compromised where I felt I could live with it. Now, what other problem do you have with the way I think about this?

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J_B wrote:

Momma, back on page 11 or 12 or ??? I fully answered your question about WHAT IF, no comment?

Page 11, J_B. I believe this sums it up:

J_B wrote:

. . . I do not believe in religious freedom because I have it. I simply believe in religious freedom and the separation of church and state.

The founding fathers were well aware of the excesses of the clergy throughout history and were attempting to create a government free from such abuses. That their philosophies were predominantly shaped by nominal christianity may perhaps be just a footnote.

Nothing they could have done would have granted them a particular favor from God as all governments stand in subjection to him: "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God." (Romans 13:1)

And nothing they might have done would free christians from their obligation to God. When the apostles were haled before the sanhedrin, " . . . Peter and the [other] apostles said: "We must obey God as ruler rather than men.""( Acts 5:29)

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Momma Angel wrote:

You can pull up all the stuff you want off the internet, and so can I. We can both find things to back up our assertions.

As I pointed out earlier, the sites you have posted are loaded with easily proven bogus quotes and misinformation. I also asked "why is it that the side promoting no separation needs to rely on deception to make their point?"

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Mesquite,

I feel like you are trying to pick an argument with me? It could be me. I have a terrible headache and am edgy.

Again, I DID NOT POST IT AS 100% TRUTH. I just wanted an answer to a question. I didn't say it was true. I said WHAT IF. Man, why don't you understand that, Mesquite.

J_B understood and so did Kickycan. They both answered my question. I don't need to reply on anythng to make my point.

I speak from what I believe and feel and think. If you accept it, then you accept it. If you don't, then you don't.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Sozobe,

No, my beliefs don't trump yours. You are perfectly free to practice a religion or not.

And no, I am sorry. Allah and God are not the same God.

Muslims do not recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Savior. If they believed in the same God, they would believe Jesus was and is the Son of God and Savior.

This, of course, is crap. From the earliest days of this cult, there have been significant numbers of believers who have never claimed that the putative Jesus were the son of god, nor that the putative Jesus were divine.

This is a blanant attempt to conflate a tenant of the Protestant creed (and not even of all Protestants) onto christianity as a whole. One of the problems with you silly claims of rationality is that you know so damned little of christianity, its history and the many forms it has taken.

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Christianity is based upon the belief that Jesus Christ was and is the Son of the Living God and that He was sent to the earth and was crucified, died, and was resurrected on the third day and ascended into heaven. This was done for the forgivness of sins.

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That is the superstition of some christians--it has never been true that all christians have believed specifically that, no matter what you say. Christianity was almost wrecked in its first three centuries because it was nearly equally divided by those who believed that the putative Jesus were the son of god, and those who asserted that he was not. You know nothing of the history of christianity, which you demonstrate with what ought to be embarrassing regularity.

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