'Israel should dismantle nuclear weapons' US Army War Colleg

stevewonder wrote:

We are told by the right wing psycho pro Israeli media that we must not question the actions of the Israeli state yet ironically this fascist hang out is more insane than the Iranian president who may verbally tal about wiping out a state but the israelis have already done so, the modern state of Israel is built upon the corpse of the ethnically cleansed land of Palestine.

Nope. Palestine has never been a state.

stevewonder wrote:

What moral right does Israel have to posess when most analyst regard it as a threat to world peace more than Iran and Nprth Korea, is also beyond our comprehension.

Only Nazi analysts regard Israel as a threat to world peace.

As for moral rights, Iran and North Korea violated treaties where they agreed not to have nuclear programs.

Israel has never been a party to a treaty that forbids them from having nuclear weapons.

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stevewonder
Which organization are you affiliated with? Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizballah ??

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au1929 wrote:

stevewonder
Which organization are you affiliated with? Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hizballah ??

All of the above, probably.

I scrolled back a couple of pages and found really fascinating stuff about Israel. As a "gentile" who lived there 14 years I, as it turns out, was "subject for ethnic persecution". Funny but I never encountered the word "gentile" in any of the Israeli laws. But what can fool me probably can't fool Steve.

The marriage thing is simply untrue. It is not "against the law" - the problem is, there is no institute of civil marriage. As a result, Jews, Muslims, Christians can only get married by religious authorities - but as there is no atheist religious authority, yep, tough luck for atheists or agnostics like myself. They have to go to Cyprus, 300 km from Haifa, get their paperwork done there, and then the Zionist oppressors (insert your favourite cliche here) recognize it within 3 to 5 minutes. Same sex marriages are generally not recognized yet, but Tel Aviv municipality does - for taxation purposes as well.

I also wonder what kind of ethnic cleansing results growth in cleansed population, shows TV programs in that cleansed minority language during prime time and allows minority holidays to be included in package of paid optional holidays.

But heck, I'm only an eyewitness, no match for Geocities sites and books with colourful covers Steve (or steve?) uses.

Re main subject - did it ever happen that of two hostile parties one dismantled its weapons and as a result another one did as well? Not considering fairy tales.

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oralloy wrote:

stevewonder wrote:
We are told by the right wing psycho pro Israeli media that we must not question the actions of the Israeli state yet ironically this fascist hang out is more insane than the Iranian president who may verbally tal about wiping out a state but the israelis have already done so, the modern state of Israel is built upon the corpse of the ethnically cleansed land of Palestine.

Nope. Palestine has never been a state.

stevewonder wrote:
What moral right does Israel have to posess when most analyst regard it as a threat to world peace more than Iran and Nprth Korea, is also beyond our comprehension.

Only Nazi analysts regard Israel as a threat to world peace.

As for moral rights, Iran and North Korea violated treaties where they agreed not to have nuclear programs.

Israel has never been a party to a treaty that forbids them from having nuclear weapons.

er...........so all Europeans are Nazis!!!

rght okay and I suppose everyone who dares to express their disguts with Israel is a nazi or a miltant islamist.

You guys need to construct arguements and not try to slence people with labels it just dont work.

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*shakes fist in air* those pesky nazis took over Europe after all who would have thought!!!

Its sad and pitiful that people trying to defend israel's fascism have no arguemement resort to name calling and false labelling just like the nazis did.

And so if anyone has the backbone to Israels human rights abuse and fascism they run the risk of being labelled and harassed until they shut up.
Well times are changing and I will not be bullied by you into silence in the face of human rights abuse.
_____________________________________________________________

EU poll: Israel 'biggest threat' to world peace

U.S. beats out 'axis of evil' in causing global instability

Posted: October 31, 2003

7:00 p.m. Eastern

© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com

Over half of Europeans think Israel poses the "biggest threat to world peace," according to a controversial poll commissioned by the European Commission.

The same survey has the United States beating out Iran, Iraq and North Korea - the trio dubbed the "axis of evil" by President George W. Bush - as well as Afghanistan in a ranking of what countries contribute most to world instability.

EUobserver.com reports the survey, conducted between Oct. 8 and 16 by Taylor Nelson Sofres/EOS Gallup of Europe, consisted of 15 questions regarding "the reconstruction of Iraq, the conflict in the Middle East and World peace."

According to the website, the poll sparked controversy - not over its results, but over the release of its results. Namely, the European Commission was accused of suppressing the results revealing the extent of mistrust of Israel and the U.S. while the Bush administration was stumping for Iraq reconstruction assistance at the international donors conference in Madrid last week.

Secretary of State Colin Powell at the Iternational Donors Conference for the Reconstruction of Iraq in Madrid, Spain, Oct. 23.

More than 77 countries participated in the conference that raised $33 billion in grants and loans, including $20 billion pledged by the U.S. and $812 million pledged from the European Union. Most of the funds will go into a trust to be managed by the World Bank, the United Nations and a committee of Iraqis.

>>>>>.The poll found 59 percent of Europeans believe Israel represents the biggest obstacle to Mideast and world peace.<<<<<<<<

A Commission spokesperson denied the decision to not publish some of the results until next Monday was politically motivated, explaining that the results withheld were still "unstable."

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stevewonder wrote:

rght okay and I suppose everyone who dares to express their disguts with Israel is a nazi or a miltant islamist.

Or a self-hating Jew - which is a category which puzzles me most. Others usually don't "express their disguts" - they criticise.

Europeans don't know much about Israel. I was talking to a fairly educated guy who claimed Palestine had been the prime supplier of grain in Roman Empire; many of them think Israel is the size of France or so; surprising percentage of people I met outside Israel are unaware that the events depicted in Bible took place in Israel. Of course, it doesn't stop them from giving advices how to solve the conflict. But you obviously know more.

What honestly interests me more than those long ramblings which were already quoted thousands of times - how did you arrive to this obsession that you have to post replies in sleepy semi-conscious state?

OMG, so you choose to insist on that bull about marriage Laughing

. Did you at least notice that your article doesn't quote any of the laws?

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Galilite wrote:

stevewonder wrote:
rght okay and I suppose everyone who dares to express their disguts with Israel is a nazi or a miltant islamist.
Or a self-hating Jew - which is a category which puzzles me most. Others usually don't "express their disguts" - they criticise.

Europeans don't know much about Israel. I was talking to a fairly educated guy who claimed Palestine had been the prime supplier of grain in Roman Empire; many of them think Israel is the size of France or so; surprising percentage of people I met outside Israel are unaware that the events depicted in Bible took place in Israel. Of course, it doesn't stop them from giving advices how to solve the conflict. But you obviously know more.

What honestly interests me more than those long ramblings which were already quoted thousands of times - how did you arrive to this obsession that you have to post replies in sleepy semi-conscious state?

OMG, so you choose to insist on that bull about marriage .

I must be wrong..........cause you say so. Rolling Eyes

Do you think if you keep repeating yourself and add a touch of sarcasm your gonna be right some how.....magically.

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stevewonder wrote:

I must be wrong..........cause you say so.
Do you think if you keep repeating yourself and add a touch of sarcasm your gonna be right some how.....magically.

If you actually read the article you have posted, you might notice that it does not contradict to what I said. Even if it contradicted - between reality and quotes in the internet I still choose reality.

Again, notice - I am a "gentile" by Halacha (mixed Jewish / non-Jewish origin). I also live outside of Israel. According to your own logic, I was persecuted and must hate Israel more than you do (if it is possible).

I suppose you are not going to answer my question.

I have another one, but one thing at a time.

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oralloy wrote:

There is a difference between an all-out invasion, and spending a few weeks bombing everything that might be related to their nuclear program.

That's a nuance that is completely over the heads of the PNAC neo-cons, apparently, seeing as how the threat that Saddam posed could have been handled by precisely that kind of response.

oralloy further wrote:

However, Iran has a history of terrorism against Americans (bombings in Lebanon, kidnapping in Lebanon, Khobar Towers bombing -- and there was the whole issue of them seizing our embassy). If they continue to make terrorist attacks on us, I expect there will be broad public support for doing something much more substantial to them.

Iran's history of anti-American sentiment began in the early fifties with America's direct intervention and usurpation of Iranian sovereignty with America's overthrow of it's constitutionally elected government, and its replacement with the dictatorial American puppet, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran.

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InfraBlue wrote:

Iran's history of anti-American sentiment began in the early fifties with America's direct intervention and usurpation of Iranian sovereignty with America's overthrow of it's constitutionally elected government, and its replacement with the dictatorial American puppet, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran.

Thanks infra for an educated post.
Most champions of imperialism appear to be oblivious of the fact that the US supported the Shah to Oust a Democratically Secular elected government, that directly led to the Iranians getting so pissed off they brought in the Clerics in the 1979 revolution.

So the Islamist Revolution was a direct result of the US suppot of an unelectd monrachy against freedom and democracy.

Now the Bush administration has blundered again this time in Iraq. Leaving the way away open to Shia Islamist government that supports Iran given that they went to 'school' their.

Two Islamist governments in the middle east thanks to the US.

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The story of the US fighting democracy in Iran by backing the Shah leading to the Islamist revolution has been documented by ex-CIA man William Blum.

http://www.libros.com.ph/images/scanned%20books%202005/killing%20hope.jpg

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stevewonder wrote:

oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
We are told by the right wing psycho pro Israeli media that we must not question the actions of the Israeli state yet ironically this fascist hang out is more insane than the Iranian president who may verbally tal about wiping out a state but the israelis have already done so, the modern state of Israel is built upon the corpse of the ethnically cleansed land of Palestine.

Nope. Palestine has never been a state.

stevewonder wrote:
What moral right does Israel have to posess when most analyst regard it as a threat to world peace more than Iran and Nprth Korea, is also beyond our comprehension.

Only Nazi analysts regard Israel as a threat to world peace.

As for moral rights, Iran and North Korea violated treaties where they agreed not to have nuclear programs.

Israel has never been a party to a treaty that forbids them from having nuclear weapons.

er...........so all Europeans are Nazis!!!

Nope. But some are.

stevewonder wrote:

rght okay and I suppose everyone who dares to express their disguts with Israel is a nazi or a miltant islamist.

If they even feel disgust towards Israel, it is a safe bet.

stevewonder wrote:

You guys need to construct arguements and not try to slence people with labels it just dont work.

No, when dealing with anti-Semitism, it suffices to simply dismiss it as anti-Semitism.

If someone wishes to spend time making arguments against anti-Semitism, that is good, but it isn't necessary.

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InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy further wrote:
However, Iran has a history of terrorism against Americans (bombings in Lebanon, kidnapping in Lebanon, Khobar Towers bombing -- and there was the whole issue of them seizing our embassy). If they continue to make terrorist attacks on us, I expect there will be broad public support for doing something much more substantial to them.

Iran's history of anti-American sentiment began in the early fifties with America's direct intervention and usurpation of Iranian sovereignty with America's overthrow of it's constitutionally elected government, and its replacement with the dictatorial American puppet, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran.

True, but I'm not sure how that justifies their attacks on us after they overthrew the Shah.

If they try terrorism on us post-9/11, they'll find themselves in a bad spot.

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oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy further wrote:
However, Iran has a history of terrorism against Americans (bombings in Lebanon, kidnapping in Lebanon, Khobar Towers bombing -- and there was the whole issue of them seizing our embassy). If they continue to make terrorist attacks on us, I expect there will be broad public support for doing something much more substantial to them.

Iran's history of anti-American sentiment began in the early fifties with America's direct intervention and usurpation of Iranian sovereignty with America's overthrow of it's constitutionally elected government, and its replacement with the dictatorial American puppet, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran.

True, but I'm not sure how that justifies their attacks on us after they overthrew the Shah.

If they try terrorism on us post-9/11, they'll find themselves in a bad spot.

some Europeans are nazis........lOOOl

i suppose they are the ones that disagree with your fascism??

your are and oddity my fellow peep!!
:wink:

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stevewonder wrote:

oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Yes it is a given that Israel is a fascist state

No it isn't.

stevewonder wrote:
defintion one of fascism:

"Fascism is a government structure.

That much is correct.

stevewonder wrote:
The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.
Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.

Balderdash!

Fascism is a sort of militarized society where the individual is less important than the state as a whole.

The city-state of Sparta was the closest to the ideal of Fascism.

stevewonder wrote:
definiton two:

"Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties.

Balderdash again. Fascism is neither right nor left wing, but takes elements from both.

stevewonder wrote:
Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide.

That's Nazism, not Fascism.

Israel is a Miltarized society or are you denying that?
israel does promote racial superiority doctrines and can give you proofs longer than your arm,
Lies. Crap. Go ahead with the proof, moron.

but it will sufficre to say t is against the law for Jewish person to marry a gentile in Israel.
Lies. Crap.

Theres no ethinc persecution in Israel im just stop this nonsense
Incomprehensible lie. Crap.

theres no Imperalist expansion??
Nope.

No gencide??
Nope.

Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis
Lies. Crap.

Is Israel an absolute fascist I would say no not in the absolute sense.
Does it have fundmental traits that fascist and part of how the state defines itself?? Yes
Evidence? Lies. Crap.

Israel has enough of a track record to allow us to conclude it is a fascist state.
Evidence? Lies Crap
And for anyone to say its some kind or liberal democratci haven is just poppy cock!

Ahhhhh. Always feel much better after a dump....
TTFN.

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Moishe3rd wrote:

stevewonder wrote:
israel does promote racial superiority doctrines and can give you proofs longer than your arm,
Lies. Crap. Go ahead with the proof, moron.

The proof probably will be a 3 page long quote of an interview with a professor of gynecology in the University of West Sussex credible because the professor is Jewish, right, Stevie?

Or maybe another snapshot of a cover with a blast or a bomb on it.

I will ask my questions again though.

Dear representatives of progressive mankind who wish Israelis to be thrown to the sea, would you mind telling me:

1. Is there 1 (one) precedent in history when of two hostile parties one party unilaterally disposed of its weapons, and another one did the same, and all lived in peace? Yes I understand that the topic was opened not to offer a solution, but you should be able to base your opinions, right?
2. Steve - what is exactly the reason of your obsession with Israel? You might put up non-Israel and US related subjects today, but the statistics are still kinda odd.

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I question these statements by Oralloy:
_______________________________________________________

1) "Only Nazi analysts regard Israel as a threat to world peace. "

2) "As for moral rights, Iran and North Korea violated treaties where they agreed not to have nuclear programs."
=============================================

(1) is false, everytime there's a poll taken in Europe about 70% agree with the statement "Israel is the greatest threat to world peace" That's a lot of people and they can't all be Nazi analysts!!

(2) False also, neither Iran nor North Korea have signed any treaties agreeing to discontinue nuclear programs.

North Korea has entered into agreements to discontinue some stages of nuclear weapons development -- not at all the same thing.....

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Worth pointing out that the 70% agreement is with the strongest statement ("Israel is the greatest threat to wordpeace") and not to the weaker allegation posted by Oralloy where it's merely designated as "a" threat to world peace.

As to the NPT it contains a clause that countries can instantly and unilaterally withdraw from the agreement if their vital interests are at risk.

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Moishe3rd wrote:

[

Ahhhhh. Always feel much better after a dump....
TTFN.

Nice of you to define the value your own opinions, frankly I couldnt have defined your contribution any better myself. :wink: touche!!

I think some people call it verbal diarrhoea. Laughing

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'Israel should dismantle nuclear weapons' US Army War Colleg

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