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'Israel should dismantle nuclear weapons' US Army War Colleg

 
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 10:57 am
Galilite wrote:
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Galilite

My apologies for calling you a "religious fanatic". You are a plain fanatic.
Apology accepted.

If your definition of fanatic is a person that supports his point of view with evidence not using capital letters and exclamation marks in every second sentence, e.g. "It's a FACT!" or "SAY WHAT????" - then yes, of course, I am a fanatic. May I also remind you that you apparently have forgotten to diagnose me with a severe case of mental illness.
EndersGame - PM option is not fully accessible... Also, you might want to go back and read the entire discussion, everything connected this or another way to the main subject was discussed - some technical bits were very interesting, including USAF report quoted by Louise_R_Heller.


At last, somebody actually looked up the USAF report!! Thank you.

As to Galilite: I'm a molecular biologist, not a psychiatrist, so cannot diagnose anybody with mental illness. Nor do I believe that psychiatrists can diagnose online --- however the symptom of imagining actual words that never were said by anybody is clearly understood without need of an M.D. or in my modest case a Sc.D. Any more questions --- and before you comment further on my English be advised it is my third language, so I regret any failings I may have relative to your high (!) standards Smile
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2006 11:26 pm
au1929 wrote:
InfraBlue
You keep calling Israel a bigoted state, a state where 1/5 of the citizens are Arabs. Tell what would you call the Palestinian controlled territories, or Saudi Arabia, Iran and other Moslem nations of the Middle East where Jews are forbidden to live. Jews who are descendants of those who have lived there from biblical times
Further, should the two state dream come to fruition . What do you think the possibility of a Jew being able to live in the nation of Palestine?


Oh yeah, I would call Saudi Arabia and Iran bigoted, surely. From what I understand, though, there were never many Jews in Saudi Arabia to begin with. Also, the West's creation of the state of Israel in the Middle East, and the antagonism that that process created fueled enmity and animosity among the surrounding countries to which you refer. It made a bad situation for the Mizrahim in those countries worse. It did create an opportunity for Israel to augment its "Jewish" population, though.

Given the antagonism to which I referred, I don't think the possibility of a Jew being able to live in the nation of Palestine, should it ever come to fruition, would be very high, at least in the near future after its creation. I think eventually the two sides will amend their differences, there will be one state for all the peoples in that land, and there will be peace, relative peace. But that is still a long way off.

Having said all of this, the fact that Saudi Arabia and Iran are bigoted, and that there is a dim possibility that a Jew would be able to live in a future state of Palestine does not negate the fact that Israel is also a bigoted state. Comparisons to other countries' practices are appeal to common practice fallacies and red herrings. The irony is that Israel was created by and for a people that themselves were escaping bigoted persecution. Israel is a response to bigotry and ethnocentrism with bigotry and ethnocentrism. Seeing as how Israel is a Western nation, with the progress and advancement and enlightenment thereof, one would expect a more advanced, progressive, and enlightened approach to these problems than Israel's compensational chauvinism.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 04:53 am
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
At last, somebody actually looked up the USAF report!! Thank you.

As to Galilite: I'm a molecular biologist, not a psychiatrist, so cannot diagnose anybody with mental illness. Nor do I believe that psychiatrists can diagnose online --- however the symptom of imagining actual words that never were said by anybody is clearly understood without need of an M.D. or in my modest case a Sc.D. Any more questions --- and before you comment further on my English be advised it is my third language, so I regret any failings I may have relative to your high (!) standards Smile

Louise - I don't enjoy bashing people. I see that you simply don't pay attention to the posts you reply to.

English is my third language too (as I mentioned throughout the thread, I am an Israeli born in USSR) and I definitely make many mistakes, so my standards are not very high.

In case you really didn't understand what I meant - yelling "this is a fact" without telling why or "you're all lunatics and fanatics" - is not only un-scientific, it is plain annoying. Has nothing to do with your English, which - at least to me - sounded like native.

As you can see, we discussed that USAF report (unfortunately, the discussion too fast went into offtopic):
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1746287#1746287
and, amazingly, it led me to believe that Israel either doesn't have nuclear weapons or has non-operational weapon lookalikes (I quote the reasons there).
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 06:58 pm
Quote:

yelling "this is a fact" without telling why or "you're all lunatics and fanatics" -


Thanks Galilite for this demo including "yelling" (decibel level exactly???)
and alleged quotes every bit as imaginary as your cohorts' fantasies.

Too bad.

Hope schizophrenia isn't contagious SmileSmile
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:23 pm
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Quote:

yelling "this is a fact" without telling why or "you're all lunatics and fanatics" -
Thanks Galilite for this demo including "yelling" (decibel level exactly???) and alleged quotes every bit as imaginary as your cohorts' fantasies.
I'm sorry, I forgot to post the URL (I thought you'ld be able to locate it yourself, but I guess my standards are too high). Follow the bouncing ball:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1776251#1776251
A figment of my imagination wrote:
You and your fellow religious fanatics CANNOT tell FACT from FICTION...

Capital letters in the internet are perceived as yelling. If you don't know such basics and plain can't read, why post?
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Too bad.

Hope schizophrenia isn't contagious SmileSmile
Thank you for conveniently following my expectations.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:34 pm
... for the absolutely last time quoting from Galilite:
"
Quote:
you're all lunatics and fanatics" -


Fantasy becomes you, stay with it.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:36 pm
Btw Galilite

I never called YOU a religious fanatic --- as you alleged and I graciously apologized for no reason --- your associates were clearly mentioned in my original statement which you kindly quoted a moment ago.

My previous apology is therefore null and void.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 07:48 pm
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Btw Galilite

I never called YOU a religious fanatic --- as you alleged and I graciously apologized for no reason --- your associates were clearly mentioned in my original statement which you kindly quoted a moment ago.

You're a scientist, right? Or so you claim.

Let's see. Moishe is not counted - because it was "you and your fellow fanatics". Other than Moishe, there were only me and au1929 here talking about Zionism in general. Plural assumes at least two.

PS. What time is it in your place?
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Feb, 2006 08:45 pm
Galilite wrote:
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Btw Galilite

I never called YOU a religious fanatic --- as you alleged and I graciously apologized for no reason --- your associates were clearly mentioned in my original statement which you kindly quoted a moment ago.

You're a scientist, right? Or so you claim.

Let's see. Moishe is not counted - because it was "you and your fellow fanatics". Other than Moishe, there were only me and au1929 here talking about Zionism in general. Plural assumes at least two.

PS. What time is it in your place?

Hey!
I resemble that remark!
Rolling Eyes
So, Galilite, you are Israeli? Religious?
What do you think the future is going to bring for Israel? In the next year or so?
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 03:53 am
Moishe3rd wrote:
So, Galilite, you are Israeli? Religious?
Yes, I am Israeli (currently living in Australia), but secular. Well, again, difficult to expect otherwise, I grew up in a Communist country.
Moishe3rd wrote:
What do you think the future is going to bring for Israel? In the next year or so?
I wish I knew. I hope, at least, clarity.

I just hope Iran's latest activity is whatever it looks and not coverage for something else - like it was before Yom Kippur War.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 04:00 am
Moishe3rd wrote:
So, Galilite, you are Israeli? Religious?
Yes, I am Israeli (currently living in Australia), but secular.
Moishe3rd wrote:
What do you think the future is going to bring for Israel? In the next year or so?
I wish I knew. I hope, at least, clarity.

I just hope Iran's latest activity is whatever it looks and not coverage for something else - like it was before Yom Kippur War.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 07:47 am
Galilite wrote:
Moishe3rd wrote:
So, Galilite, you are Israeli? Religious?
Yes, I am Israeli (currently living in Australia), but secular.
Moishe3rd wrote:
What do you think the future is going to bring for Israel? In the next year or so?
I wish I knew. I hope, at least, clarity.

I just hope Iran's latest activity is whatever it looks and not coverage for something else - like it was before Yom Kippur War.

No, I suspect Iran is doing exactly what Ahmanutjob says they are doing - setting up nuclear weapons so they can destroy Israel.
In light of that, however, it becomes obvious that if only Israel would disarm and destroy all of its nuclear weapons, then Iran would immediately open everything to inspection; disarm; cease its attacks on Israel and become a democratic, peaceful country.
Rolling Eyes
Darn that Israel, always stirring up trouble.... Sigh.....
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 08:47 am
InfrBlue wrote
Quote:
The irony is that Israel was created by and for a people that themselves were escaping bigoted persecution. Israel is a response to bigotry and ethnocentrism with bigotry and ethnocentrism. Seeing as how Israel is a Western nation, with the progress and advancement and enlightenment thereof, one would expect a more advanced, progressive, and enlightened approach to these problems than Israel's compensational chauvinism.







I know this will fall upon deaf ears since you as Hamas and the rest of the Moslem world do not believe that Israel should have been created. There are still those who are not too happy that Hitler was not able to complete the genocide of the Jews.
However, looking at the History of the the Jewish people. The Murder,massacre,pogroms, burnings, and etc by both Christianity and Islam why would one anyone in their right mind believe that when the chips are down they could rely on the good graces of their tormentors?

You wrote
Quote:
The irony is that Israel was created by and for a people that themselves were escaping bigoted persecution.


Yes, and that was exactly why it was created. A safe haven where the Jew has the power to stop or at least fight against the atrosities that have been visited on them over and over for at least the last 1500 years. And if the opportunity presented itself would again.
Remember, anti semitism lies dormant in some areas of the world and is rampant in others. It is IMO as I repeat always ready to reappear whenever the opportunity presents itself.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 07:54 pm
Interesting --- the 2 most hawkish Israelis and / or Jews here live respectively in the US and in Australia.

Far, far away from any fallout your policies are likely to cause to the actual inhabitants of Israel, eh??

So, so, so very convenient for you both.

You remind me of a letter sent by a 19th century merchant responding to a revolutionary leader (Serb or Bulgarian or Greek I don't recall now) of an uprising against the then Ottoman Empire occupying the Balkans.

The merchant sent to the revolutionary leader the funds needed for buying guns along with a note saying:

"Either we shall be free or you shall die".
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 08:10 pm
Louise_R_Heller
That is a lot of BS. What is the matter you have no meaningful response? I guess you will have to check in with your buddies in Hamas to get one or possibly you can contack that loony in Iran..
I am dangerously close to calling you what you are. However, rather than getting the thread locked I will refrain and end contact at this point.
0 Replies
 
Galilite
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 08:26 pm
Moishe - I am serious here. Would you announce to the entire world that you want to destroy a state and then initiate nuclear development? This is just too straightforward, and even if Ahmadinjehad is a nutcase, I doubt that all the Iranian government completely lacks strategic abilities. I also doubt that they would ever consider nuking somewhere near Jerusalem.

On the other hand, similar stunt was pulled by Sadat and Assad in 1973, and Israel wasn't ready for Yom Kippur War.

A general note to Louise Heller - it is always beneficial to think before typing. This might save a lot of embarrassment to yourself - you should have learned it already.
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
Interesting --- the 2 most hawkish Israelis and / or Jews here live respectively in the US and in Australia.

Far, far away from any fallout your policies are likely to cause to the actual inhabitants of Israel, eh??
Rather predictable. I might question this "your policies" and "hawkish" stuff (not to mention that no one among us here advised anything to anybody), but I am plain tired to point out to your constant "errors".

Not that it's really your business, but in my case it is a mix of personal / business reasons. Most of them can be even tracked on the internet.

I think I'll follow au's example. Please, feel free to yell as much as you like.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2006 09:25 pm
au wrote:
There are still those who are not too happy that Hitler was not able to complete the genocide of the Jews.


Unfortunately, that is true. Fortunately, however, that will never happen, and that is despite the existence of Israel.

Quote:
The Murder,massacre,pogroms, burnings, and etc by both Christianity and Islam why would one anyone in their right mind believe that when the chips are down they could rely on the good graces of their tormentors?


The single largest population of Jews lives very well among Christianity and Islam and other religions, contrary to, and undermining your alarmist claims.

au wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
The irony is that Israel was created by and for a people that themselves were escaping bigoted persecution.



Yes, and that was exactly why it was created. A safe haven where the Jew has the power to stop or at least fight against the atrosities that have been visited on them over and over for at least the last 1500 years.


A safe haven? Ironically, Israel is probably the most dangerous place for Jews to live owing precisely to its bigoted, ethnocentric nature, and the manner in which it was created. And the West, especially as lead by the US, is willing to defend bigotry and ethnocentrism, and its imposition on peoples of the Middle East. It is willing to defend the indefensible. It is precisely because of these reasons that Israel is the crux of the conflict between the Middle East and the West.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 08:24 am
Infrablue

What you write...

Quote:
A safe haven? Ironically, Israel is probably the most dangerous place for Jews to live owing precisely to its bigoted, ethnocentric nature, and the manner in which it was created. And the West, especially as lead by the US, is willing to defend bigotry and ethnocentrism, and its imposition on peoples of the Middle East. It is willing to defend the indefensible. It is precisely because of these reasons that Israel is the crux of the conflict between the Middle East and the West.


.... is so blindingly obvious as to require no explanation. It's sad that our fellow posters refuse to see it but I have decided that further clarifications are a waste of time, they're just being misconstrued as insults.

Isn't there a story in the Old Testament about some "writing on the wall" that was neither understood nor followed? That's them all over.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 09:17 am
Galilite wrote:
Moishe - I am serious here. Would you announce to the entire world that you want to destroy a state and then initiate nuclear development? This is just too straightforward, and even if Ahmadinjehad is a nutcase, I doubt that all the Iranian government completely lacks strategic abilities. I also doubt that they would ever consider nuking somewhere near Jerusalem.

On the other hand, similar stunt was pulled by Sadat and Assad in 1973, and Israel wasn't ready for Yom Kippur War.

Thus far, the Arab and Muslim countries or peoples attacking Israel have been fairly consistent. They mean what they say.
When Ahmanutjob says he wants to wipe out Israel and create nukes to do it, I take him at his word.
Admittedly, Israel, the US, and sad cases like Louise and Infra, do not take him at his word.
Even well intentioned people seem to believe that "if only..."
If only Israel would do this that or the other (cease to exist).
If only the Arabs called Palestinians had their own land (which they do).
If only we would simply surrender to Islamic dominance of the world...
Then, they wouldn't want to kill us anymore.
The Yom Kippur War was not the result of Arab trickery. It was the result of self-delusion.
So, yes, this kind of self-delusion goes on, but it is by us, not them.
The Arabs and Muslims say exactly what they want.
You and I dead; Israel not to exist; and the US and the rest of the world to be Muslim.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Feb, 2006 11:45 am
Moishe, another fanatic, not in Brooklyn or Australia but in the mideastern battlefield (!!!) of Minesotta, calls Infra and me "sad cases".

WHY don't the lot of you move to Israel instead of peddling your sad case from 8,000 miles away at a minimum????
0 Replies
 
 

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