Ticomaya wrote:I think Israel should dismantle Iran's nukes, and nuclear capabilities. That's what they should do.
stevewonder wrote:2) You have also failed to begin a proper noun with a capital letter.
It is Steve not steve.
...
One wonders if you knew that rule at the time you were deciding on your username for this forum.
Irans nukes??? where would they be then next to Iraqs Nukes??
The subject is Israels nukes, you have failed to grasp that.
and another thing you have failed to grasp is sarcasm but then they dont have much of a sense of humour in the Likud party do they???
LoL
stevewonder wrote:Ticomaya wrote:I think Israel should dismantle Iran's nukes, and nuclear capabilities. That's what they should do.
stevewonder wrote:2) You have also failed to begin a proper noun with a capital letter.
It is Steve not steve.
...
One wonders if you knew that rule at the time you were deciding on your username for this forum.
Irans nukes??? where would they be then next to Iraqs Nukes??
The subject is Israels nukes, you have failed to grasp that.
and another thing you have failed to grasp is sarcasm but then they dont have much of a sense of humour in the Likud party do they???
LoL
In my view, Iran's nukes (when and if they get them) will be much more of a concern than Isreal's nukes. That is the intent of my post ... which you apparently failed to grasp.
Sarcasm is commonly defined as:
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark.
Can you point out the attempted sarcasm in your post?
Given that Israel is a fascist aparthied state with a War Criminal as PM wouldnt you agree they should be disarmed???
EU poll: Israel 'biggest threat' to world peace
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
Over half of Europeans think Israel poses the "biggest threat to world peace," according to a controversial poll commissioned by the European Commission.
The same survey has the United States beating out Iran, Iraq and North Korea - the trio dubbed the "axis of evil" by President George W. Bush - as well as Afghanistan in a ranking of what countries contribute most to world instability.
EUobserver.com reports the survey, conducted between Oct. 8 and 16 by Taylor Nelson Sofres/EOS Gallup of Europe, consisted of 15 questions regarding "the reconstruction of Iraq, the conflict in the Middle East and World peace."
According to the website, the poll sparked controversy - not over its results, but over the release of its results. Namely, the European Commission was accused of suppressing the results revealing the extent of mistrust of Israel and the U.S. while the Bush administration was stumping for Iraq reconstruction assistance at the international donors conference in Madrid last week.
Secretary of State Colin Powell at the Iternational Donors Conference for the Reconstruction of Iraq in Madrid, Spain, Oct. 23.
More than 77 countries participated in the conference that raised $33 billion in grants and loans, including $20 billion pledged by the U.S. and $812 million pledged from the European Union. Most of the funds will go into a trust to be managed by the World Bank, the United Nations and a committee of Iraqis.
The poll found 59 percent of Europeans believe Israel represents the biggest obstacle to Mideast and world peace.
A Commission spokesperson denied the decision to not publish some of the results until next Monday was politically motivated, explaining that the results withheld were still "unstable."
I must apologize for having made any comments on this thread in the first place. Not being familiar with any of stevewonder's previous posts, I didn't reallize, of course, that he serves as front man for the PLO and similar entities. I assumed there was no specific axe to grind. Such assumptions are always dangerous. I will now take myself out of the pool, dry myself off, and leave the chlorinated field of endeavor to you, Tico. Y're doing a heck of a job, btw. Cheers!
PLO whats that then??
Oh thats right!!!
Its your sorry excuse for a come back.
You are unable to construct an arguement to defend your position so you come here trying to troll the thread by whinging about grammar, when clearly you need lessons in that yourself.
sad. very sad.
stevewonder wrote:Given that Israel is a fascist aparthied state with a War Criminal as PM wouldnt you agree they should be disarmed???
That is hardly a given.
And they will kill any who try to disarm them. Israelis are good at defending themselves.
Merry Andrew wrote:I must apologize for having made any comments on this thread in the first place. Not being familiar with any of stevewonder's previous posts, I didn't reallize, of course, that he serves as front man for the PLO and similar entities. I assumed there was no specific axe to grind. Such assumptions are always dangerous. I will now take myself out of the pool, dry myself off, and leave the chlorinated field of endeavor to you, Tico. Y're doing a heck of a job, btw. Cheers!
MA: Thanks. A quick review of stevewonder's prior posts was enlightening. Talking to this anti-jew wingnut isn't worth my effort.
Yes it is a given that Israel is a fascist state
defintion one of fascism:
"Fascism is a government structure. The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.
Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.
More than a class system, fascism specifically targets, dehumanizes and aims to destroy those it deems undesirable.
Until the Civil Rights act of 1964, many parts of the US were Republic for whites and could be considered fascist for non-Caucasian residents. Fascism promotes legal segregation in housing, national resource allocation and employment. It provides legal justification for persecuting a specific segment of the population and operates behind a two tiered legal system. These two tiers can be overt as it was within Nazi Germany where Jews, Homosexuals, Catholics, Communists, Clergy and the handicap were held to one set of rules and courts, while the rest of Germany enjoyed different laws."
Laura Dawn Lewis
Israel society has been geared through its laws to regard gentiles as inferior, and inparticular arab semites.
definiton two:
"Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide. At the same time, fascists may embrace a form of internationalism based on either racial or ideological solidarity across national boundaries. Usually fascism espouses open male supremacy, though sometimes it may also promote female solidarity and new opportunities for women of the privileged nation or race."
Matthew N. Lyons - Politcal research associates.
'Israelis are good at killing people,'
I agree with you, even Americans of every rank and file have been killed in cold blood by Israelis without being held to account. (see my other thread)
But I dont think anyone is suggesting walking into Israel and snatching thier Nukes out of their hands, I mean thats just silly.
Ticomaya wrote:Merry Andrew wrote:I must apologize for having made any comments on this thread in the first place. Not being familiar with any of stevewonder's previous posts, I didn't reallize, of course, that he serves as front man for the PLO and similar entities. I assumed there was no specific axe to grind. Such assumptions are always dangerous. I will now take myself out of the pool, dry myself off, and leave the chlorinated field of endeavor to you, Tico. Y're doing a heck of a job, btw. Cheers!
MA: Thanks. A quick review of stevewonder's prior posts was enlightening. Talking to this anti-jew wingnut isn't worth my effort.
Oh here we go with the boring mantra............yawn.........anyone who critizes the state of Israel is an anti-Semite........
Both of you combined dont have the strength of argument to defend your positions so you either
a) troll or
b) lash out with false accusations..........
Not only have you got no arguement you are resorting to lies.........show me one place I was anti-jewish????
Oh buts thats your last resort to shut me up right.....sad very sad.
and you make a big assumption that I am not Jewish.
stevewonder wrote:Yes it is a given that Israel is a fascist state
No it isn't.
stevewonder wrote:defintion one of fascism:
"Fascism is a government structure.
That much is correct.
stevewonder wrote:The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.
Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.
Balderdash!
Fascism is a sort of militarized society where the individual is less important than the state as a whole.
The city-state of Sparta was the closest to the ideal of Fascism.
stevewonder wrote:definiton two:
"Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties.
Balderdash again. Fascism is neither right nor left wing, but takes elements from both.
stevewonder wrote:Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide.
That's Nazism, not Fascism.
oralloy wrote:stevewonder wrote:Yes it is a given that Israel is a fascist state
No it isn't.
stevewonder wrote:defintion one of fascism:
"Fascism is a government structure.
That much is correct.
stevewonder wrote:The most notable characteristic of a fascist country is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population based upon superficial qualities or belief systems.
Simply stated, a fascist government always has one class of citizens that is considered superior (good) to another (bad) based upon race, creed or origin. It is possible to be both a republic and a fascist state. The preferred class lives in a republic while the oppressed class lives in a fascist state.
Balderdash!
Fascism is a sort of militarized society where the individual is less important than the state as a whole.
The city-state of Sparta was the closest to the ideal of Fascism.
stevewonder wrote:definiton two:
"Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties.
Balderdash again. Fascism is neither right nor left wing, but takes elements from both.
stevewonder wrote:Often, but not always, it promotes racial superiority doctrines, ethnic persecution, imperialist expansion, and genocide.
That's Nazism, not Fascism.
Israel is a Miltarized society or are you denying that?
israel does promote racial superiority doctrines and can give you proofs longer than your arm, but it will sufficre to say t is against the law for Jewish person to marry a gentile in Israel.
Theres no ethinc persecution in Israel im just stop this nonsense
theres no Imperalist expansion??
No gencide??
Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis
Is Israel an absolute fascist I would say no not in the absolute sense.
Does it have fundmental traits that fascist and part of how the state defines itself?? Yes
Israel has enough of a track record to allow us to conclude it is a fascist state.
And for anyone to say its some kind or liberal democratci haven is just poppy cock!
As they say walk a mile in my shoes. Does Israel have a nuclear capability? In all likelihood the answer is yes. Should they give it up? No. Would you if you were in their shoes surrounded by hostile nations give up the deterrent. I hardly think so.
Consider that in all likelihood the nuclear capability possessed by each side kept the cold war from turning hot.
au1929 wrote:As they say walk a mile in my shoes. Does Israel have a nuclear capability? In all likelihood the answer is yes. Should they give it up? No. Would you if you were in their shoes surrounded by hostile nations give up the deterrent. I hardly think so.
Consider that in all likelihood the nuclear capability possessed by each side kept the cold war from turning hot.
at last someone with a rational point to make.
Au do you not agree that given the backward state of the arab nations they are in not fit state to pose any threat to Israel?? Given that Israel has defeated them befre very easily wthout the use of Nukes what justification is there for those Nukes??
And why do they need 300 Nukes?? surely a 50 would be enough or do you think that figure is exagerated by the Israelis???
Also dont you think the fact that they posess Nukes gives impetus to other nations namely arabs to aquire such weapons???
Wouldnt that be Irans main arguement??
The report that this thread is based on states exactly that, Israel is actingly like a catalyst for arab nations to develop Nukes.
Wouldnt it be enough if the us gave guarantee to israel for security so it could do without Nukes and that way we would all be in a position to force others not to pursure Nukes??
I'm wading back into this thread against my better judgment.
I'm not aware of Isreal having taken the official position that Iran should be "wiped off the map." On the other hand, that is exactly what the leader of Iran said about Isreal. And he meant it. As Ahmadinejad said later, "My words were the Iranian nation's words. Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid."
Israel has a valid concern with Iran getting nukes. Iran has no legitimate concern that Israel has them, unless of course they intend to engage in hostilities with Israel.
stevewonder
To begin with I think it is naive to think that Iran would give up it quest for nuclear armaments if Israel get rid of theirs. I should remind you that the leadership of Iran has just recently again vowed to destroy Israel. In addition Iran's desire for nuclear power is based more on the perceived need to protect itself from the Great Satan the US than it's fear of Israel.
Steve wrote
Quote:Wouldn't it be enough if the us gave guarantee to Israel for security so it could do without Nukes and that way we would all be in a position to force others not to pursuer Nukes??
Is that some kind of joke. What gaurentee could the US give that would protect Isreal. Is Iraq a good example of US protection?
As to the number of nukes the Israeli's have. Based on what did you come up with the 300 number.
au1929 wrote:stevewonder
To begin with I think it is naive to think that Iran would give up it quest for nuclear armaments if Israel get rid of theirs. I should remind you that the leadership of Iran has just recently again vowed to destroy Israel. In addition Iran's desire for nuclear power is based more on the perceived need to protect itself from the Great Satan the US than it's fear of Israel.
Steve wrote
Quote:Wouldn't it be enough if the us gave guarantee to Israel for security so it could do without Nukes and that way we would all be in a position to force others not to pursuer Nukes??
Is that some kind of joke. What gaurentee could the US give that would protect Isreal. Is Iraq a good example of US protection?
As to the number of nukes the Israeli's have. Based on what did you come up with the 300 number.
Its not a joke, Britain istelf relies upon the US for maintainng its nuclear deterent.
The reason why Iraq is in such a mess is because the US dont have the moral grouns to be an any more violent than they are at the moment. If the Us pledged to protect Israel (which it already has done) than an invading army can and would feel the full fire power of the Us and their intervention would be justifed including the threat of nukes.
and the likelyhood of another invasion by arab nation is nonsense.
so if the Israelis were persuaded to give up their nukes it would shw the world they are for peace and allow us to go in hard to prevent others aquring Nukes.
Its a win win situation for Israel and world peace.
Steve
And who will persuade Pakistan, India N. Korea and others to give up theirs. Further, how will Iran be persuaded to give up their development. And Russia from aiding their efforts towards development. It seems to me that the war college is blowing smoke and that Israel is being asked to put their existence on the line based upon conjecture and a hope. What happens if the geniuses at the war college are wrong. Do they say oops as they watch Israel fade into dust?
stevewonder wrote:Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis
Balderdash!
Virtually everything you say about Israel is false.
stevewonder wrote:Its not a joke, Britain istelf relies upon the US for maintainng its nuclear deterent.
Come again?
stevewonder wrote:and the likelyhood of another invasion by arab nation is nonsense.
Nice try, but Israel is keeping her nukes.
stevewonder wrote:so if the Israelis were persuaded to give up their nukes it would shw the world they are for peace and allow us to go in hard to prevent others aquring Nukes.
Its a win win situation for Israel and world peace.
Nothing that Israel is doing is preventing us from going in hard to prevent others from acquiring nukes.
If Israel and the US spent a few weeks bombing Iran as hard as we could, there'd be no problem at all.
