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'Israel should dismantle nuclear weapons' US Army War Colleg

 
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:30 pm
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis


Balderdash!

Virtually everything you say about Israel is false.



......given your very persuasive arguement and citation of irrefutable evidences I am forced to concede you are right...... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:41 pm
Quote:
stevewonder wrote:
Its not a joke, Britain istelf relies upon the US for maintainng its nuclear deterent.


Come again?


g ......o......read a...........booooook!!!



Quote:
stevewonder wrote:
and the likelyhood of another invasion by arab nation is nonsense.


Nice try, but Israel is keeping her nukes.


whatever that means???

Quote:
stevewonder wrote:
so if the Israelis were persuaded to give up their nukes it would shw the world they are for peace and allow us to go in hard to prevent others aquring Nukes.
Its a win win situation for Israel and world peace.


Nothing that Israel is doing is preventing us from going in hard to prevent others from acquiring nukes.

If Israel and the US spent a few weeks bombing Iran as hard as we could, there'd be no problem at all.


except of course the reality of the bumbling mess in Iraq,

we can take that as a very strong indicator that 'your going in hard''into a country and transforming it into a mirror image of Iran i.e an Shia Islamic state demonstrate 'your' ability to throw large quantites of **** into fans,

Is this the talent that you are reffering to?

By that measure I think a victory parade is order even as we speak.
Laughing


Do you even go through your day with your eyes open?? Confused
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 12:59 pm
stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Its not a joke, Britain istelf relies upon the US for maintainng its nuclear deterent.


Come again?


g ......o......read a...........booooook!!!


That's always a good idea.

But I should point out the fact that the UK has a fleet of ballistic missile submarines, run by their own seamen, under the direct command of their own government, and full of nuclear missiles.



stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Nothing that Israel is doing is preventing us from going in hard to prevent others from acquiring nukes.

If Israel and the US spent a few weeks bombing Iran as hard as we could, there'd be no problem at all.


except of course the reality of the bumbling mess in Iraq,

we can take that as a very strong indicator that 'your going in hard''into a country and transforming it into a mirror image of Iran i.e an Shia Islamic state demonstrate 'your' ability to throw large quantites of **** into fans,

Is this the talent that you are reffering to?


Iraq has nothing to do with the bombing campaign that I spoke of.

And Iraq is hardly a mirror image of Iran.



stevewonder wrote:
Do you even go through your day with your eyes open?? Confused


Every single day.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Dec, 2005 01:12 pm
stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis


Balderdash!

Virtually everything you say about Israel is false.



......given your very persuasive arguement and citation of irrefutable evidences I am forced to concede you are right...... Rolling Eyes


I gave it as much answer as it deserved.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Dec, 2005 08:57 am
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis


Balderdash!

Virtually everything you say about Israel is false.



......given your very persuasive arguement and citation of irrefutable evidences I am forced to concede you are right...... Rolling Eyes


I gave it as much answer as it deserved.


Or perhaps thats the best you could do?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2005 08:08 pm
stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
stevewonder wrote:
Just saying no its all lies does mean squat the truth is there for everyone to see and has even between testifed by Israelis


Balderdash!

Virtually everything you say about Israel is false.



......given your very persuasive arguement and citation of irrefutable evidences I am forced to concede you are right...... Rolling Eyes


I gave it as much answer as it deserved.


Or perhaps thats the best you could do?


Considering your propensity to post outrageously untrue things about Israel, I am not sure there is much anyone can do.

Best to comment that it is completely untrue, and move on to the next post.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 10:42 pm
oralloy wrote:
If Israel and the US spent a few weeks bombing Iran as hard as we could, there'd be no problem at all.


Here we go:

    Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, and Sarah Baxter, Washington The Sunday Times December 11, 2005 ISRAEL'S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed. . . . . Defence sources in Israel believe the end of March to be the "point of no return" after which Iran will have the technical expertise to enrich uranium in sufficient quantities to build a nuclear warhead in two to four years. "Israel -- and not only Israel -- cannot accept a nuclear Iran," Sharon warned recently. "We have the ability to deal with this and we're making all the necessary preparations to be ready for such a situation." The order to prepare for a possible attack went through the Israeli defence ministry to the chief of staff. Sources inside special forces command confirmed that "G" readiness -- the highest stage -- for an operation was announced last week. . . . . A "massive" Israeli intelligence operation has been underway since Iran was designated the "top priority for 2005", according to security sources. Cross-border operations and signal intelligence from a base established by the Israelis in northern Iraq are said to have identified a number of Iranian uranium enrichment sites unknown to the the IAEA. Since Israel destroyed the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981, "it has been understood that the lesson is, don't have one site, have 50 sites", a White House source said. If a military operation is approved, Israel will use air and ground forces against several nuclear targets in the hope of stalling Tehran's nuclear programme for years, according to Israeli military sources. It is believed Israel would call on its top special forces brigade, Unit 262 -- the equivalent of the SAS -- and the F-15I strategic 69 Squadron, which can strike Iran and return to Israel without refuelling.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 05:48 pm
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 05:56 pm
stevewonder wrote:
anyway back here on planet earth.....................


____________________________________________________




Dec. 12, 2005, 6:45PM
Suppose Israel were to give up nuclear weapons
Step back by the Jewish state could influence Iran


I don't see how that article could possibly be related to planet earth.

Here is a more down to earth article, from a year ago:

    Haaretz: Israel to Get 5000 US Smart Bombs, Bunker Busters Voice Of America News 21 Sep 2004, 12:40 UTC An Israeli newspaper says the United States plans to sell Israel nearly 5,000 smart bombs, including 500 one-ton "bunker buster" bombs that can penetrate two-meter thick concrete walls. The Haaretz newspaper reported Tuesday that funding for the $319 million weapons deal would come from U.S. military aid to Israel. According to the report, the U.S. Defense department pushed for the deal to maintain, what the newspaper calls, Israel's military advantages and ensure U.S. strategic and tactical interests. Citing a senior Israeli security source, Reuters news agency said the type of weapons sought under the deal are not needed for use in Palestinian territories, but "bunker busters" could serve Israel against Iran or possibly Syria. Some information for this report provided by AP, Reuters.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/09/mil-040921-voa01.htm
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:23 am
Quote:
Vick
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, December 15, 2005; Page A01

ISTANBUL, Dec. 14 -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called the extermination of 6 million Jews during World War II a "myth," bringing a new cascade of international condemnation onto a government that is increasingly viewed as radical even within Iran.

"They have created a myth in the name of the Holocaust and consider it above God, religion and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in an address carried live on state television.

The speech in the Iranian city of Zahedan echoed the president's remarks at a conference of Islamic nations in Saudi Arabia last week, when he suggested that if Europeans established Israel out of guilt over the Nazi campaign, the country should be carved out of Europe.

But Wednesday was the first time Ahmadinejad declared that the Holocaust had not happened, and the assertion served to further undermine Iran's efforts to persuade other countries that it can be trusted with its nuclear program.

In Western countries, "if someone were to deny the existence of God . . . and deny the existence of prophets and religion, they would not bother him," Ahmadinejad said. "However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews' massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can."

Iran's official news agencies excised the offending language from transcripts of the speech in an apparent attempt by the government to limit any damage as it tries to avert U.N. sanctions over its nuclear program.

"It's really shocking that a head of state who has a seat in the United Nations can say such a thing," said Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, the executive body of the European Union. He said the speech "calls our attention to the real danger of that regime having an atomic bomb."

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev told reporters: "The combination of extremist ideology, a warped understanding of reality and nuclear weapons is a combination that no one in the international community can accept."

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said his government had summoned the Iranian charge d'affaires to issue a protest of the "shocking" remarks. The Foreign Ministry of Poland, where Nazis operated death camps where Jews were killed, said "the remarks of the Iranian president are causing even more outrage" than Ahmadinejad's statement last month that Israel should be "wiped off the map."

Since being elected on a populist platform emphasizing a fairer distribution of the country's oil wealth, Ahmadinejad has voiced fiery rhetoric that has emphasized his roots in the extreme reaches of Iranian politics.

A former mayor of Tehran, he came to the presidency with no foreign policy experience. He served in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and Basiji militia, hard-line organizations committed to keeping alive the tenets of Iran's 1979 revolution, including rejection of ties with the West. On Thursday, Human Rights Watch, a watchdog group based in New York, issued a report linking two members of his cabinet with extrajudicial killings in the 1980s and '90s of Iranians the government regarded as disloyal.

While calls for an end to Israel have long been part of the Iranian theocracy's official creed, Ahmadinejad has turned up the rhetoric significantly, at a time when Iran is seeking international recognition in various ways. It has recently lobbied for membership in the World Trade Organization and for more foreign investment.


Continued:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/14/AR2005121402403.html?referrer=email&referrer=email

I wonder if the planners[ pardon the expression} at the war college would modify their views in light of recent events. Remember the Iranians continue to echo the distruction of the Jewish state.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:44 am
Au - they're not called "mad mullahs" for nothing. :wink:

Der Spiegel has an interesting interview with Iran expert Ali Ansari. Here's a key bit:

Quote:
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Internationally, the only times we hear from Ahmadinejad are when he talks about Israel. What do people in Iran think about him otherwise?

Ansari: I think where he really crossed the line where the domestic audience is concerned is when he said a green aura was coming out of his head during his speech to the United Nations. This conversation got filmed, and people can watch it on DVD. Ahmadinejad came home from his speech and told an ayatollah that everyone at the General Assembly -- all these world leaders -- didn't even blink for thirty minutes (out of awe). Lots of people have seen this in Iran, and it makes him seem a bit too superstitious.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,390338,00.html


LOL, ya think??

So, I'm generally beyond amazed when I see people (yes, even some posters here on A2K) who say they think these loonies should be allowed to go nuclear.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 11:31 am
JustWonders wrote:

te]

LOL, ya think??

So, I'm generally beyond amazed when I see people (yes, even some posters here on A2K) who say they think these loonies should be allowed to go nuclear.


i take it your talking about israel and iran right???
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 11:34 am
There is absolutely nothing in her post that should cause you to "take it" that way.
0 Replies
 
Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 12:07 pm
The US Air force is a good enough source for Mr. Morrison?

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/farr.htm

.....but read the disclaimer at the start of this report:

-=========================================
"""Disclaimer

The views expressed in this publication are those solely of the author and are not a statement of official policy or position of the U.S. Government, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Army, or the USAF Counterproliferation Center.

The Author

Colonel Warner D. "Rocky" Farr, Medical Corps, Master Flight Surgeon, U.S. Army, graduated from the Air War College at Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama before becoming the Command Surgeon, U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He also serves as the Surgeon for the U.S. Army Special Forces Command, U.S. Army Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations Command, and the U.S. Army John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School. With thirty-three years of military service, he holds an Associate of Arts from the State University of New York, Bachelor of Science from Northeast Louisiana University, Doctor of Medicine from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Masters of Public Health from the University of Texas, and has completed medical residencies in aerospace medicine, and anatomic and clinical pathology. He is the only army officer to be board certified in these three specialties. Solo qualified in the TH-55A Army helicopter, he received flight training in the T-37 and T-38 aircraft as part of his USAF School of Aerospace Medicine residency.

Colonel Farr was a Master Sergeant Special Forces medic prior to receiving a direct commission to second lieutenant. He is now the senior Special Forces medical officer in the U.S. Army with prior assignments in the 5th, 7th, and 10th Special Forces Groups (Airborne), 1st Special Forces, in Vietnam, the United States, and Germany. He has advised the 12th and 20th Special Forces Groups (Airborne) in the reserves and national guard, served as Division Surgeon, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry), and as the Deputy Commander of the U.S. Army Aeromedical Center, Fort Rucker, Alabama.

Acknowledgments

I would like to acknowledge the assistance, guidance and encouragement from my Air War College (AWC) faculty research advisor, Dr. Andrew Terrill, instructor of the Air War College Arab-Israeli Wars course. Thanks are also due to the great aid of the Air University librarians. The author is also indebted to Captain J. R. Saunders, USN and Colonel Robert Sutton, USAF. Who also offered helpful suggestions.

Abstract

This paper is a history of the Israeli nuclear weapons program drawn from a review of unclassified sources. Israel began its search for nuclear weapons at the inception of the state in 1948. As payment for Israeli participation in the Suez Crisis of 1956, France provided nuclear expertise and constructed a reactor complex for Israel at Dimona capable of large-scale plutonium production and reprocessing. The United States discovered the facility by 1958 and it was a subject of continual discussions between American presidents and Israeli prime ministers. Israel used delay and deception to at first keep the United States at bay, and later used the nuclear option as a bargaining chip for a consistent American conventional arms supply. After French disengagement in the early 1960s, Israel progressed on its own, including through several covert operations, to project completion. Before the 1967 Six-Day War, they felt their nuclear facility threatened and reportedly assembled several nuclear devices. By the 1973 Yom Kippur War Israel had a number of sophisticated nuclear bombs, deployed them, and considered using them. The Arabs may have limited their war aims because of their knowledge of the Israeli nuclear weapons. Israel has most probably conducted several nuclear bomb tests. They have continued to modernize and vertically proliferate and are now one of the world's larger nuclear powers. Using "bomb in the basement" nuclear opacity, Israel has been able to use its arsenal as a deterrent to the Arab world while not technically violating American nonproliferation requirements. """""
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 12:19 pm
au wrote:
I wonder if the planners[ pardon the expression} at the war college would modify their views in light of recent events. Remember the Iranians continue to echo the distruction of the Jewish state.


It seems the PNAC neo-cons targeted the wrong country to invade to expropriate control of oil and mitigate any threat to Israel by its neighbors. But then again, they thought that overrunning Iraq, seeing as how Saddam's control over the country was based largely on smoke and mirrors, would be a cake walk. I don't think that even this group of incompetents would think that of Iran.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 01:07 pm
stevewonder wrote:
JustWonders wrote:

te]

LOL, ya think??

So, I'm generally beyond amazed when I see people (yes, even some posters here on A2K) who say they think these loonies should be allowed to go nuclear.


i take it your talking about israel and iran right???


No. However, if Sharon or anyone else in Israel were to ever give a speech in which they discussed a "green aura" coming out of their heads, I'd be persuaded to change my mind. :wink:

Is it really any wonder that "everyone at the General Assembly -- all these world leaders -- didn't even blink for thirty minutes"?

Ahmadinejad claims it was because they were "in awe"...LOL! I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:23 pm
We are told by the right wing psycho pro Israeli media that we must not question the actions of the Israeli state yet ironically this fascist hang out is more insane than the Iranian president who may verbally tal about wiping out a state but the israelis have already done so, the modern state of Israel is built upon the corpse of the ethnically cleansed land of Palestine.

According to Sefer Toldot Ha-Haganah, the official history of the Haganah, it clearly stated how Palestinian villages and population should be dealt with. It stated:

"[Palestinian Arab] villages inside the Jewish state that resist 'should be destroyed .... and their inhabitants expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state.' Meanwhile, 'Palestinian residents of the urban quarters which dominate access to or egress from towns should be expelled beyond the borders of the Jewish state in the event of their resistance.' " (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 178)


Juts how the Iranians are any less insaner than the Israelis escapes us.

What moral right does Israel have to posess when most analyst regard it as a threat to world peace more than Iran and Nprth Korea, is also beyond our comprehension.

The only thing we can see is that our kids are dying to further expand the imperialism of the Israeli state.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:50 pm
Who the hell is "we"?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 02:56 pm
LOL, Tico. I was afraid to ask Smile
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Dec, 2005 03:39 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
au wrote:
I wonder if the planners[ pardon the expression} at the war college would modify their views in light of recent events. Remember the Iranians continue to echo the distruction of the Jewish state.


It seems the PNAC neo-cons targeted the wrong country to invade to expropriate control of oil and mitigate any threat to Israel by its neighbors. But then again, they thought that overrunning Iraq, seeing as how Saddam's control over the country was based largely on smoke and mirrors, would be a cake walk. I don't think that even this group of incompetents would think that of Iran.



There is a difference between an all-out invasion, and spending a few weeks bombing everything that might be related to their nuclear program.


However, Iran has a history of terrorism against Americans (bombings in Lebanon, kidnapping in Lebanon, Khobar Towers bombing -- and there was the whole issue of them seizing our embassy). If they continue to make terrorist attacks on us, I expect there will be broad public support for doing something much more substantial to them.
0 Replies
 
 

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