1
   

Bird flu in Canada more US sabotage

 
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Nov, 2005 11:45 pm
Mad Cow USA: The Nightmare Begins
By John Stauber
Published: December 30, 2004

TheTyee.ca

When Sheldon Rampton and I wrote our 1997 book, "Mad Cow USA: Could the Nightmare Happen Here?", it received favorable reviews from some interesting publications such as the Journal of the American Medical Association, New Scientist, and Chemical & Engineering News. Yet although the book was released just before the infamous Texas trial of Oprah Winfrey and her guest Howard Lyman, for the alleged crime of "food disparagement," the book was ignored by the mainstream media, and even most left and alternative publications failed to review it.

Apparently many people who never read it at the time bought the official government and industry spin that mad cow disease was just some hysterical European food scare, not a deadly human and animal disease that could emerge in America. In March, 1996, when the British government reversed itself after ten years of denial and announced that young people were dying from the fatal dementia called variant CJD - mad cow disease in humans - the United States media dutifully echoed reassurances from government and livestock industry officials that all necessary precautions had been take long ago to guard against the disease.

What U.S. officials knew a decade ago
Those who did read "Mad Cow USA" when it was published in November, 1997, however, realized that the United States assurances of safety were based on public relations and public deception, not science or adequate regulatory safeguards. We revealed that the United States Department of Agriculture knew more than a decade ago that to prevent mad cow disease in America would require a strict ban on "animal cannibalism," the feeding of rendered slaughterhouse waste from cattle to cattle as protein and fat supplements, but refused to support the ban because it would cost the meat industry money.
It was the livestock feed industry that led the effort in the early 1990s to lobby into law the Texas food disparagement act, and when an uppity Oprah hosted an April 1996, program featuring rancher-turned vegan activist Howard Lyman, she and her guest became the first people sued for the crime of sullying the good name of beef. Oprah eventually won her lawsuit, but it cost her years of legal battling and millions of dollars. In reality, the public lost, because mainstream media stopped covering the issue of mad cow disease. As one TV network producer told me at the time, his orders were to keep his network from being sued the way Oprah had been.

In the six years since the publication of "Mad Cow USA," Sheldon Rampton and I have spoken out in media interviews, at conferences of United States families who had lost relatives to CJD, and we saw our book published in both South Korea and Japan. Our activism won us some interesting enemies, such as Richard Berman, a Republican lobbyist who runs an industry-funded front group that calls itself The Center for Consumer Freedom. Berman is a darling of the tobacco, booze, biotech and food industries, and with their funding he issued an online report depicting us as the ring leaders of a dangerous conspiracy of vegetarian food terrorists out to destroy the United States food system. Last week alone he issued two national news releases attempting to smear us.

Blood-fed calves cross NAFTA borders

Of course, he had an easier time attacking us before the emergence of mad cow disease in America. I was saddened but not surprised when mad cow disease was finally discovered in the United States. When the first North American cow with the disease was found last May in Canada, I told interviewers that if the disease was in Canada, it would also be found in the United States and Mexico, since all three NAFTA nations are one big free trade zone and all three countries feed their cattle slaughterhouse waste in the form of blood, fat and rendered meat and bone meal. In fact, in North America calves are literally weaned on milk formula containing "raw spray dried cattle blood plasma," even though scientists have known for many years that blood can transmit mad cow type diseases.

(This is why if you try to donate your blood to the Red Cross, you will be rejected if you spent significant time in Britain during the height of its mad cow epidemic. Britain is afraid that humans with mad cow disease may have contaminated the British blood supply, and they do not use its own blood plasma since as yet no test can adequately screen blood for mad cow disease.)

The United States has spent millions of dollars on PR convincing Americans that mad cow could never happen here, and now the USDA is engaged in a crisis management plan that has federal and state officials, livestock industry flacks, scientists and other trusted experts assuring the public that this is no big deal. Their litany of falsehoods include statements that a "firewall" feed ban has been in place in the United States since 1997, that muscle meat is not infective, that no slaughterhouse waste is fed to cows, that the United States tests adequate numbers of cattle for mad cow disease, that quarantines and meat recalls are just an added measure of safety, that the risks of this mysterious killer are miniscule, that no one in the United States has ever died of any such disease, and on and on.

The latest spin is to blame the United States mad cow crisis on Canada.

On Saturday, December 27, with no conclusive proof whatsoever, the United States Department of Agriculture announced that the mad cow in Washington state had actually entered the United States years ago from Canada. This set off an understandable howl from the Canadian government, and by Sunday the United States was forced to back off somewhat, but clearly the PR ploy is to get Americans thinking that this is Canada's problem, not ours.

Even if Canada does turn out to be the source of America's first case of mad cow disease, numerous questions remain: How many other infected cows have crossed our porous borders and been processed into human and animal food? Why are United States slaughterhouse regulations so lax that a visibly sick cow was sent into the human food chain weeks before tests came back with the mad cow findings? Where did the infected byproduct feed that this animal ate come from, and how many thousands of other animals have eaten similar feed?

Since the announcement of United States mad cow disease our phones have rung off the hook with interview requests. The New York Times noted that "The 1997 book 'Mad Cow USA', by Sheldon Rampton and John C. Stauber, made the case that the disease could enter the United States from Europe in contaminated feed." Articles in the New York Times also cited other warnings from Consumer Union's Michael Hansen, and Dr. Stanley Prusiner, the Nobel Prize-winning researcher who this week called the current United States practice of weaning calves on cattle blood protein "stupid." All of this would be very vindicating, except for one problem: the millions of dollars that the government and industry are spending on PR to pull the wool over the public's eyes might just succeed in forestalling the necessary steps that now, at this late date, must still be taken to adequately deal with this crisis.

Simple steps needed now

The good news is that those steps are rather simple and understandable. We should ship Ann Veneman and her smartest advisors to Britain where they can copy the successful feed and testing regulations that have solved the mad cow problem in Europe. Veneman and her advisors should institute a complete and total ban on feeding any slaughterhouse waste to livestock. You may think this is already the case because that's what industry and government said they did back in the summer of 1997. But beside the cattle blood being legally fed back to cattle, billions of pounds of rendered fat, blood meal, meat and bone meal from pigs and poultry are rendered and fed to cattle, and cattle are rendered and fed to other food species, a perfect environment for spreading and amplifying mad cow disease and even for creating new strains of the disease.

The feed rules that the United States must adopt can be summarized this way: you might not be a vegetarian, but the animals you eat must be. The United States must also institute an immediate testing regime that will test millions of cattle, not the 20,000 tested out of 35 million slaughtered in the past year in the United States. Japan now tests all cattle before consumption, and disease experts like Dr. Prusiner recommend this goal for the United States. And of course, no sick "downer" cows, barely able to move, should be fed to any humans. These are the type of animals most likely to be infected with mad cow and other ailments - although mad cows can also seem completely healthy at the time of slaughter, which is why testing all animals must be the goal.

Bush administration slow to act

Ann Veneman and the Bush administration, unfortunately, currently have no plans to do the right thing. The United States meat industry still believes that the millions of dollars in campaign contributions doled out over the years will continue to forestall the necessary regulations, and that soothing PR assurances will convince the consuming public that this is just some vegetarian fear-mongering conspiracy concocted by the media to sell organic food. Will the American public buy this bull? It has in the past. Much depends on journalists and what they are willing to swallow. It looks to me as if papers such as the Wall Street Journal and New York Times are finally putting some good investigative reporting teams onto this issue, and that may undercut and expose PR ruses such as the "blame Canada campaign."

What I can predict is that the international boycott of United States beef, rendered byproducts, animals and animal products will continue, and this will apply a major economic hurt to meat producers big and small across the country. Will their anger turn against the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, the Animal Feed Industry Association and other lobbies that have prevented the United States from doing the right thing in the past? Or will this become some sort of nationalistic food culture issue, with confused consumers and family farmers blaming everyone but the real culprits in industry and government?

We must continue to advocate for the United States to do the right thing: Follow the lead of the European Union nations, ban all "animal cannibalism," and test more or all animals. In the meantime, if you want safe American beef, search out products that are certified organic and guaranteed not to be fed slaughterhouse waste such as calf formula made from cattle blood. An excellent source of information on the web is the site of the Organic Consumers Association.

Our book, "Mad Cow USA," is temporarily unavailable until a paperback copy is released later in 2004. However, you can get the book in its entirety for free through the website of our Center for Media & Democracy. Simply go to http://www.prwatch.org/ and click on the cover of "Mad Cow USA." You'll be taken to www.prwatch.org/books/mcusa.pdf where you can download for free the entire book - and read the warnings that went unheeded then, and are still being ignored by government regulators and industry.


********************************************
Smile Yeah, dufus, at least I know the truth. You can keep on deluding yourselves. If you'd read more, you'd find out that the US attempts to blame Canada for a lot of **** (as per above). As far as debate, you lose. Loser.

Keep eating beef. Seems to be affecting your mental capabilities wonderfully well.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 12:19 pm
A lot of smoke and distracting nonsense. In the months after the event surfaced and this article was published, the FACT that the infected cow came from Canada was clearly and undeniably established. Nice try to distract attention by criticizing the U.S. procedures for overseeing beef production, but the fact is the diseased animal in question came from Canada, not the United States. Banning further imports from the source is the normal reaction of all nations in such cases. Had the shoe been on the other foot there is little doubt that Canada would have done the same.


This is yet another example of childishness in the attitudes of many Canadians in their reactions to their neighbor to the south. Where do these delusions of persecution come from? Again, in relative terms the US/Canadian trtade is far more important to the Canadian exonomy tham it is to ours. Canadians should think some more about where their real interests really lie. They often seem to assume they are (or should be) much more important to us than they really are.

I noted englishmajor's snide remarks about resource consumong Americans and their SUVs. I wonder if he knows that Canadians consume a good deal more energy per capita than do Americans. Indeed Canada leads the world in per capita energy consumption.

Cutting and pasting marginally related opinion pieces does not constitute debate. However, I note that the quoted stuff is generally much more coherent and better written than englishmajor's prose.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 12:43 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
I wonder if he knows that Canadians consume a good deal more energy per capita than do Americans. Indeed Canada leads the world in per capita energy consumption.


I couldn't find other (world) data than of 2001, you got the latest, George?

United States USA 7,920.9
Canada CAN 7,999.5
Luxembourg LUX 8,693.9
Bahrain BHR 9,323.2
United Arab Emirates ARE 11,331.7
Iceland ISL 11,800.0
Qatar QAT 26,888.3
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 01:03 pm
Sorry?
We supply the US with 99% of electricity imports and 94% of natural gas imports. Who consumes more? Who needs WHO more? Think again. America's stance on softwood against Canada is costing you, America, at least $2,500 more per each new house built (think of those hurricane destroyed areas). You forget that we have other countries to do business with. China/India/Japan are quite interested in our lumber, etc. As well, perhaps you'd like to know where your electricity will come from when we cease to do business with America? In the 1960's our main business partner was Europe. (60%) We seem to be heading that way again, since the US can't seem to honour business agreements.

People in other countries, Canada is included here, of course, are always amused and alarmed at the phenomenal absence of awareness present in America. Your stupidity is only surpassed by your greed.

Canada signed onto the Kyoto Accord. America did not. Might hurt business. America is only 5% of the population of the planet but uses 30% of the earth's resources. Nice going.

Your country is right on the edge. If you don't know that you are more ignorant than I thought. China holds 200 BILLION of American debt. Congratulations! You've achieved the biggest debt ever! China will amuse themselves tweaking your dollar around to suit them. You are 7 TRILLION in debt, total, and counting. Keep that war going. Bush/Cheney are getting rich off of it via the Carlyle Group. And don't pretend that they are an innocent business involved in humanitarian issues.

Delusions of persecution? Gee, gosh, can't imagine. Maybe has something to do with America defying NAFTA agreements, who ruled in Canada's favour, regarding our softwoods and not paying us the 5 million they owe us? Stuff like that.

Maybe you should live outside of your little bubble and see what goes on in other countries, other than what the drivel CNN/Fox, etc feed you like pablum on TV.

YOU USDA hasn't, as usual, done anything about feeding meat to vegetarian animals (cows). You just don't hear about it. Like you don't hear about a lot of things your corp. controlled media wants to black out.

Americans are so mentally slow, it has taken them over 5 years to finally figure out that GWB and his war in Iraq might be wrong. Duh. Intelligence in the US is an oxymoron.

Yes, your prose is so fluent. One would think it'd been written by a Harvard grad, like GWB. I'm not attempting to write an essay. I would not waste my time on such ignorant people consumed with such massive cupidity.

The US should think more about where their real interests lie. They often seem to assume they are more important to us, and the rest of the planet, than they really are. Remember: the US doesn't produce anything; it relies on other countries for resources.

Like Mark Twain said, 'no one ever went broke under-estimating the taste of the American public'.
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 01:06 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
I wonder if he knows that Canadians consume a good deal more energy per capita than do Americans. Indeed Canada leads the world in per capita energy consumption.


I couldn't find other (world) data than of 2001, you got the latest, George?

United States USA 7,920.9
Canada CAN 7,999.5
Luxembourg LUX 8,693.9
Bahrain BHR 9,323.2
United Arab Emirates ARE 11,331.7
Iceland ISL 11,800.0
Qatar QAT 26,888.3



George? Are you listening? If Canada does consume a millimeter more, maybe it has something to do with our freezing temps and heating fuels (which are OUR resources, not yours). What's your excuse? Got updated info?
0 Replies
 
InTraNsiTiOn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 02:17 pm
(waiting patiently for further posts)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 02:28 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I couldn't find other (world) data than of 2001, you got the latest, George?


A more recent table, using terajoule per person ... and posted on the website of Statistics Canada, I admit:

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/7830/clipboard13oh.jpg
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 07:20 pm
Another one bites the dust, eh George?
Got anything else nasty to say about Canada?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 07:48 pm
I'll try to deal with several of englishmajor's assertions.

First it is true that Canada is the source of most of our electricity imports. Not a surprise since the only other country with which we have a border is Mexico. These imports chiefly come from Canada's surplus of hydroelectrical power in the northeast region. However they constitute less than 1% of our total electrical power consumption. We would hardly notice their loss.

Second it is certainly true that Canada's northerly climate influences their higher power consumption - or at least the uses to which they put it. However I don't make much of a distinction between the legitamacy of staying warm during the winter in Quebec and staying cool during the summer in Texas. If this point is good for the goose ...

Canada needs to sell us her surplus natural gas as badly as we need to import it. Canada needs the money to finance her net imports from other nations and we need the gas. However if Canada was to cut off the exports the resulting higher prices here would simply accelerate efforts here to further develop domestic sources (political and environmental opposition here limits us) and to open more LNG terminals for the import of LNG from Asia. We would get by very nicely if Canada (as englishmajor repeatedly implies) someday decides to cut us off.

I don't know much about the softwood lumber issue that seems top so inflame englishmajor, except that the WTO has recently ruled in favor of the United States and against Canada over this matter. Clearly the issue involves competing interests with respect to market access by U.S. and Canadian suppliers to ur markets. There are also some environmental issues that drive the matter. Loonie environmentalists here have resisted timber harvests in most of our very extensive western forests for years, yielding fuel-littered forests and enormous losses to fires. I suspect that too is an issue for our government.

I think most Americans spend very little time thinking about Canada. It seems that many Canadians spend a good deal of time seething (childishly, I think) about imagined injuries we are assumed to have inflicted on them. Too bad.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 07:53 pm
englishmajor wrote:
Another one bites the dust, eh George?
Got anything else nasty to say about Canada?


Depends on what you mean by "bites the dust".

It is you, not me who started this invective. My only negative comments have had tp do with the peevishness you and other Canadians have exhibited over these matters, and the meritless character of your complaints.
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 12:58 am
Georgeblob,

5 billion dollars is not childish peevishness. That is what the US owes Canada over the softwoods issue you so blithely dismiss.

For your information, WTO rulings do not override NAFTA rulings. NAFTA ruled in Canada's favour. Of course it is no surprise that you (Americans in general) know very little of what goes on here, or anywhere, nor do you care.

Unless it affects your pocketbooks, Americans pay little attention to anything that goes on around their small sphere. Perhaps you'd be interested to learn that your government's ruling regarding our softwoods has resulted in Americans paying quite a bit (over $2,500 per new home). This will add up to a sizeable amount with the rebuilding required in all of your hurricane/tornado destroyed cities.

Didn't see you retract your statement about Canada being the #1 resource vampire. Looks like the US gets the booby prize for that one.

Canada is signing deals with China and India which will, in the long run, prove to be a wise economical move for us. China needs our resources (natural gas, lumber, etc.) America is in debt 200 BILLION to China, and not so attractive to do business with.

Don't forget that we hold most of the freshwater in North America. No no, of course we'd never consider withholding it from our friends, the Americans.

Our diamond mines (yes, we have them) are worth billions -2nd only to DeBeers in So. Africa. You can look it up online if you give a damn.

Do we need America? No, we traded with Europe in the 1960's and may do so again.

America - listen up here. You are not the only country on earth. You are certainly not the largest. You do not have the most resources on the planet. Your country consumes more resources than the rest of the planet. Who do you think you are? Does the world owe you?

I don't know where you get that you only depend on Canada for 1% of resources for hydroelectrical power.

Tell that to California, the next time they come begging to British Columbia for hydroelectric power, to air condition their homes in the Los Angeles, etc., desert and fill their swimming pools.

America spends very little time thinking about anyone but themselves. It is this complete hubris that will destroy the US. Your greed is insatiable and Canada, for one, has had enough of your tiresome threats and stalling on issues such as the softwoods money owed us. If you call that whining or peevish, you are really the typical insular, narrow minded, ignorant, loud mouthed 'ugly' American that the world perceives you as.

All countries on the planet feel sorry that Canada has to be so close to such a country as yours.

I know of no country that admires America. Can you name one?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 02:52 pm
You exhibit in a remarkably compact form nearly all of the self-centered, paranoid peevishness that is making Canadians and Canada a rather tiresome subject for an increasing number of Americans.

I don't wish and I don't think many Americans wish to tell Canadians how to live their lives. Oddly you seem to assume you have rights to tell us how to live ours. There are numerous trade issues among the nations that have signed on to the various (almost) free trade agreements in the world, Most involve numbers far greater than those you quote for the relatively minor softwood issue.

No regulated system is perfectly fair, and there are relative winners and losers on numerous such issues out there - most of much greater consequence than this one. In its trade with the United States Canada is a net winner by a huge margin. Canada's huge trade surplus with the U.S. pays for its large net imports from the rest of the world. What distinguishes Canadians from others in these matters appears to be the intensity with they whine and complain about the occasional issue that doesn't go their way.

In a world in which there is increasing demand for some of the basic commodities which Canada exports you certainly can find other markets for your exports in these areas. However history is fairly clear that exporters of commodities only rarely are able to control their markets. Their need to sell is usually greater than the need of any of their particvular customers to buy - from them. Finally most international; commodity markets are quite fungible - the origin of any particular shipload is generally of little consequence in a trade based on price.

The $2,500 marginal cost increase (which you allege) is of little consequence in a U.S.housing market in which new homes sell for well over $500,000.

Nothing to retract about relative energy use per capita. Canadians consume more than Americans according to all sources except the Canadian one Walter found. In any event it was you who brought this issue to the table. By the way do you still claim that Canada didn't export BSE-infected cattle to the U.S.?

Canada "holds most of the fresh water in North America" only if you consider the Great Lakes yours, We both have borders on all the lakes, except Michigan (the second largest - which is entirekly within the U.S.). I don't think Canada would get very far with such a claim. Perhaps Canada will send its four superannuated destroyers from Esquimalt to the Great Lakes to assert its rights in this area.

I think you tend to become very confused about statistics. I said that we import only about 1% of the electrical power we consume from Canada, most of which is produced in Canadian Hydro plants in the Northeast. U.S.roduced hydroelectric power constitutes about 7% of our consumption,

I don't think America "comes begging" to Canada for anythiung - we pay you for our imports. What appears to be at issue here is Canada's desire, even insistence, that we buy even more from you, not less. We have asked Canada for some support on military and political issues and generally Canada has turned us down. We really don't owe you any
favors.

Not many people profess to admire one stronger than themselves and who has the potential to affect thenm against their will - whether that potential is exercised or not. It is, however interesting to note the clamor, of the citizens from countries whose governments profess to despise us, to immigrate to this country, and in such great numbers.

You are perfectly well entitled to your opinions of us - no matter how confused you may be about the facts and how little understanding you may exhibit about the contexts in which they reside . Same goes for Canada. You may have noticed that it doesn't bother us much at all.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 03:15 pm
http://runn.smugmug.com/photos/11908666-M.jpg
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 03:34 pm
Being a HAPPY ex-pat of the US I can say that there are a number of people clamouring to get into Canada at the moment. Immigration Canada is trying to expedite immigration, but trying to process almost a million people takes awhile in a country with 30 million people and limited staff in Immigration. Right after the last election, Immigration Canada was swamped with frantic Americans wanting to suddenly immigrate. We don't, as a rule, take 'just anyone'. We let America have that distinction. After these frantic people found out how difficult it is to immigrate they gave up. Went elsewhere. I hear some are going to Mexico, Costa Rico, etc.

I understand America and I know exactly what they are up to, although you may profess ignorance if you wish. America IS part of the evil axis but none of you seem to get it.

No, we didn't want to join your war fun and games. Thank God our PM has cojones. And brains. Canada neither needs or wants America's protection. Can't remember when we were threatened last, can you?

Canada is looked upon by the world as a benevolent country. The US is looked upon as malevolent. Wonder why.

US Housing Market: Here's some news for ya: the housing market is slowing down. Calif. is usually the first indicator of this. When contractors are out of work the trickle down effect begins.....y'all are headed for a recession.

Yes (yawn) we have homes in Canada worth well over a million, just in Vancouver. So what. The cumulative effect of higher prices you will pay for lumber is going to affect America, but what the hell. You have charge cards! As long as you can keep on charging - it's the American Way!

You have no clue what America comes begging for. I'm sure CNN/Fox don't publish the dirt on the nightly news. Why should they? You don't hear about anything else that they want a news blackout on.

They (gov't) are begging China for money to the tune of 200 BILLION. Congrats! That's the biggest loan EVER. Your country has become a nation of beggers, losers, the biggest liars and dumbest people ever. No country in their right mind would vote Bush in once let alone TWICE. Geez. What a nation of fools. You deserve what you accept.

Get a clue: What America does, doesn't concern Canada. What does concern Canada is that America threatens us if we don't comply. Which doesn't make us change our minds anyway. You are a nation of bullies and all Canadians, generally, think Americans are just a little, well, stupid. You try to force Star Wars down our throats, we said no. BSE happens. Coincidence? Sure, why not. We'd like for you all to just go away, but that can't happen.....so we are stuck with the bully. Waiting for him to get his nose punched big time by a bigger bully......

Canadians don't live in fear, we don't have 'yellow alerts' or whatever. It's a great country, full of intelligent, fun people (yes, we as a nation are more literate than the US. Look it up, google expert). We'd barely notice you Yanks if you'd only leave us alone.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 03:46 pm
I am reminded of an old Navy saying

"Don't get in a fight with a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it."

Good luck.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 03:52 pm
englishmajor wrote:
No, we didn't want to join your war fun and games. Thank God our PM has cojones. And brains. Canada neither needs or wants America's protection. Can't remember when we were threatened last, can you?


Please don't use "we" when you are discussing Canada, englishmajor.

You are not a Canajun. Yet.

You do not represent many, if any, Canajuns with your comments.
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 04:05 pm
That is your opinion. Who appointed you Canada's representative?

I do consider myself Canadian. I have earned that right and paid my dues. There are, however, some Canadians who would be better off living in the States. They'd make good Yanks.

I have found that when talking to fellow Canucks about the Americans, they open up. First they preface if by, "I know you've lived in America, but...." then they start on what jerks the Americans are. Being polite is nice, but saying the truth is better. I have not found one Canadian that I've talked to, and I talked to many, that feel America is correct in being part of this war.

Most Canadians who are educated know that Star Wars is a wet dream of the US, begun by R. Reagan and proven to NOT work. Good for P. Martin in turning them down on their 'offer' to protect us. From what? They are the ones who need to be worried. They are the ones with amber alerts, or whatever and fear mongering fed on a daily basis via TV and radio.

You don't know whether I am a Canadian yet or not. Have you spoken to my lawyer? Being Canadian is something a lot of Canadians take for granted. You assume the US is your big strong brother, waiting to protect poor little ? Canada from harm. Just the opposite. They would love to get their dirty paws on our resources and if you aren't careful, they will own more than just the beer and hockey teams. Wake up, guys. They aren't nice to play with. ehbeth.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 04:14 pm
englishmajor wrote:
That is your opinion. Who appointed you Canada's representative?

I do consider myself Canadian.

<snip>

You assume the US is your big strong brother


My opinion is my opinion - as yours is your very own. Which you need to remember.

I do not represent all Canajun's - only 1 - me.

You represent none. Considering yourself Canadian does not give you citizenship.

You make an error if you assume anything about my views about the United States.
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 05:01 pm
Yeah, it'd be easier if you actually stated your views rather than expecting people to read your mind.

Citizenship doesn't make you a Canadian, either. I know many 'Canadians' who relate more to the Americans than they do their own country. A legal status is only that, a legal status. How I feel about Canada in my heart is completely different from how I feel about my place of birth. I would defend my adopted country with my life. I would not do that for the US. I love Canada with all my heart; its people, its values, it kooky humour (yeah, I spell Canadian too) and its weather.

Your people were originally from somewhere else, as were Americans. North America is a land of immigrants, so what? Did your ancestors, when they first landed on Canadian shores, consider themselves Canadians? I bet they did. I would bet they were very happy to get away from whatever country they left. Of course, citizenship wasn't a big deal then; you just squatted some land and it was yours.

The only thing one cannot do until one is a Canadian citizen (I'm not talking about Permanent Resident) is vote. So what? My citizenship is something I will truly treasure. The US can have my passport and put it where the sun don't shine.

Why is that so many Canadians are so afraid to say what they really think of America? Unless they are with friends in a private setting?
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Nov, 2005 05:03 pm
JustWonders wrote:
http://runn.smugmug.com/photos/11908666-M.jpg



Si t'es pas content va tu caresser avec une poignee de braquettes. Laughing

Figure that one out, American......
0 Replies
 
 

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The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
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