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U.S. Lies About Use of Chemical Weapons

 
 
Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:14 pm
Stevepax wrote:
All this talk ... all this Bull Hockey.

Lets strip down all these rightwingers and dust them down with WP and see if they think there are chemicals involved. Let's see if they can figure out what a chemical reaction is.

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and shits like a duck, it's a bloody duck!!

Perhaps they might think less of the use of it if they got to experience it firsthand.


The whole WORLD is full of chemicals Stevepax.

If you spill gasoline on your shoe and it catches on fire, a chemical is indeed burning on your foot, but you have NOT BEEN HIT BY A CHEMICAL WEAPON. Calling it such, as I said above, dilutes the horror of TRUE chemical weapons.

WP is a chemical, so are the explosives in fragmentation shells and so are the insides of firecrackers. None of these are CHEMICAL WEAPONS.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:17 pm
Fedral wrote:
So then, by your definition and by the accepted description of the treaty, we can FINALLY agree that White Phosphorus is NOT a chemical weapon, but instead is a CONVENTIONAL WEAPON.

No need to shout at me, Fedral, I never got involved in the discussion over whether WP is or is not a chemical weapon. Frankly, that debate doesn't really interest me. If you want a concession, I suggest you look elsewhere.

Fedral wrote:
These are just a few of the TRUE chemical weapons, please don't make the mistake of confusing a nasty conventional weapon with a true weapon of horror like chemical weapons.

I never did.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:19 pm
Fine, strip down and dust up Fedral. See if you think there is any less horror than the chemicals that you are calling chemical weapons. You're a big brave man, step up and show us how harmless it is!! I think you'll find the damage just as profound!!
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:23 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Fedral wrote:
So then, by your definition and by the accepted description of the treaty, we can FINALLY agree that White Phosphorus is NOT a chemical weapon, but instead is a CONVENTIONAL WEAPON.

No need to shout at me, Fedral, I never got involved in the discussion over whether WP is or is not a chemical weapon. Frankly, that debate doesn't really interest me. If you want a concession, I suggest you look elsewhere.

Fedral wrote:
These are just a few of the TRUE chemical weapons, please don't make the mistake of confusing a nasty conventional weapon with a true weapon of horror like chemical weapons.

I never did.


Sorry Joe, my ire wasn't directed at you, it was directed at 17+ pages of people who don't have the least CLUE about what a true chemical weapon is and how horrifying can be.

I have long since conceded (Back several pages and days) at how terrible these weapons can be, but many here can't grasp what REAL chemical weapons are and how monumentally horrific they are.

I've been trying for days to convince people about that aspect of war that they have never seen, and God willing never will, that they need to get some perspective on this topic.
0 Replies
 
Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:30 pm
Stevepax wrote:
Fine, strip down and dust up Fedral. See if you think there is any less horror than the chemicals that you are calling chemical weapons. You're a big brave man, step up and show us how harmless it is!! I think you'll find the damage just as profound!!


I never claimed it was harmless, Stevepax, just that it was not a Chemical weapon by any definition.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 04:39 pm
I'll compare it to the gasoline you compared it to.

You're telling me that WP is not a chemical weapon. First IT IS a chemical. In terms of being a weapon, it depends on how you're using it.

If you pour a gallon of gas in a bottle, stuff a cloth in the neck, light it, and then throw it in a building ... is it a weapon?

I've looked at some of you so-called chemical weapons, and their effects are no more than if I took a WP bomb and blew it up in your face.

You're toying with semantics and not considering what the action of the element is. It's a chemical action, and when used as a weapon as OUR military did, it's a chemical weapon.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 07:40 pm
Stevepax wrote:
You're telling me that WP is not a chemical weapon. First IT IS a chemical. In terms of being a weapon, it depends on how you're using it.


What does that have to do with whether it is a chemical weapon?

(Answer: Nothing at all.)



Stevepax wrote:
If you pour a gallon of gas in a bottle, stuff a cloth in the neck, light it, and then throw it in a building ... is it a weapon?


Yep. It would be an incendiary weapon like WP. Not a chemical weapon.



Stevepax wrote:
You're toying with semantics and not considering what the action of the element is.


No, he is pointing out the established definition of "chemical weapon" that has been accepted by all humanity for at least a century.

YOU are the only one toying with semantics here.



Stevepax wrote:
It's a chemical action,


No, it is an incendiary action.



Stevepax wrote:
and when used as a weapon as OUR military did, it's a chemical weapon.


No it isn't.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 09:29 pm
Seldom am I in the radiance of such an intellect. I will anxiously await your doctoral thesis on how this is not a chemical reaction, and the use of this of one person against another is not that of a weapon. You be sure to let me know when it is finished!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 10:51 pm
Stevepax wrote:
I will anxiously await your doctoral thesis on how this is not a chemical reaction, and the use of this of one person against another is not that of a weapon. You be sure to let me know when it is finished!


Why you are waiting, maybe you could educate yourself on what the term "chemical weapon" means.

Had you done such research before talking about the subject, you wouldn't have made yourself look so foolish by going on about "chemical reactions" -- which has nothing to do with the definition of the term "chemical weapon".
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 11:01 pm
oralloy wrote:
Stevepax wrote:
I will anxiously await your doctoral thesis on how this is not a chemical reaction, and the use of this of one person against another is not that of a weapon. You be sure to let me know when it is finished!


Why you are waiting, maybe you could educate yourself on what the term "chemical weapon" means.

Had you done such research before talking about the subject, you wouldn't have made yourself look so foolish by going on about "chemical reactions" -- which has nothing to do with the definition of the term "chemical weapon".


More Bullhockey and semantics. I would love to blow some of this stuff in your face and see how interested you would be in playing word games about it. People who justify the use of stuff like this should be made to endure it!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 11:15 pm
Stevepax wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Stevepax wrote:
I will anxiously await your doctoral thesis on how this is not a chemical reaction, and the use of this of one person against another is not that of a weapon. You be sure to let me know when it is finished!


Why you are waiting, maybe you could educate yourself on what the term "chemical weapon" means.

Had you done such research before talking about the subject, you wouldn't have made yourself look so foolish by going on about "chemical reactions" -- which has nothing to do with the definition of the term "chemical weapon".


More Bullhockey and semantics. I would love to blow some of this stuff in your face and see how interested you would be in playing word games about it.


The established definition of the term, which has been accepted by all humanity for at least a century, is not bullhockey, semantics, or a word game.

Your attempt to pretend that "chemical weapons" means something other than the long-established definition, however, IS bullhockey, semantics, and a word game.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 11:23 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Obviously, the 86 or so countries that have ratified the CCW think that there's a difference between incendiary and non-incendiary weapons, and decided that burning someone to death is, all things considered, worse than killing them by some more conventional method


I wonder where thermobaric weapons fall in this classification system. We used those at Fallujah as well.

For the record, thermobaric weapons mix (comparatively) slower-burning fuel in with high explosive. The warhead has a lower explosive force because the fuel has displaced some high explosive, but the burning fuel continues to add energy to the blast wave as it expands, causing it to maintain its strength instead of diminishing.

Reportedly the burning fuel also makes things rather intense within the fireball after the shockwave passes you by.

On the other hand, the whole process happens a lot quicker than a normal burning incendiary.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 11:34 pm
Your argument is that it can't be a chemical weapon because it isn't on some approved list by the degenerate idiots and morons who use them on people?

Yea, that's commom sense for sure! If someone used it on us, you'd be the first one in line screaming bloody murder. The truth is that you, and people llike you really don't give a **** what we do to others, just as long as they don't retaliate!! If they retaliate, it's inhuman and barbaric. We deserve everything they do to us, and more! We've EARNED it!!
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Dec, 2005 11:44 pm
Stevepax wrote:
Your argument is that it can't be a chemical weapon because it isn't on some approved list by the degenerate idiots and morons who use them on people?


My argument is that it isn't a chemical weapon because it doesn't even come remotely close to meeting the definition of a chemical weapon.

It is what is known as an incendiary weapon.



Stevepax wrote:
If someone used it on us, you'd be the first one in line screaming bloody murder.


Well, I'd hope that our soldiers would be adequately defended no matter what weapon the enemy was trying to use on them.



Stevepax wrote:
We deserve everything they do to us, and more! We've EARNED it!!


That's absurd.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:12 am
Pentagon classified it as a chemical weapon.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0511/S00282.htm

Quote:
"DURING THE BRUTAL CRACKDOWN THAT FOLLOWED THE KURDISH UPRISING, IRAQI FORCES LOYAL TO PRESIDENT SADDAM ((HUSSEIN)) MAY HAVE POSSIBLY USED WHITE PHOSPHOROUS (WP) CHEMICAL WEAPONS AGAINST KURDISH REBELS AND THE POPULACE IN ERBIL ... AND DOHUK ... PROVINCES, IRAQ. THE WP CHEMICAL WAS DELIVERED BY ARTILLERY ROUNDS AND HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS (NO FURTHER INFORMATION AT THIS TIME)."
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oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:30 am
revel wrote:
Pentagon classified it as a chemical weapon.


The Pentagon was lying. It was anti-Saddam propaganda.
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Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:36 am
Revel, Now you will get some lame-brained crappola about it not being on some list. It only counts if it is on the list. Just because the Pentagon called it a "chemical weapon" doesn't really make it one. I still think that we should make it a law that the rightwingers who think this isn't a chemical weapon enjoy it firsthand.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:41 am
"themobaric"...isn't that a lovely word? It just dances off the tongue.
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mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:45 am
Lets see,we need to remove tear gas from the military and police arsenals,because it is a chemical weapon.
We need to outlaw pepper spray,ebcause it is a chemical weapon.

BTW,WATER is also a chemical weapon.
It is corrosive,can cause death if inhaled,and in large enough quantities can destroy life.
Should we outlaw water?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Dec, 2005 09:52 am
Yes. Please begin bathing with incendiaries. Get back to me on compliance.
0 Replies
 
 

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