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The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?

 
 
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:32 am
I was just watching the news and it seems that evidence has been found under a prison in Meggido (spelling?). I tried to find something in the news on the net but can't find anything. Does anyone know anything about this? Can you provide a link or some direction?

Thanx!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:33 am
Had been in the (tv) news here last weekend. as well as in the papers.

I'll try to find some English report of it.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:36 am
Re: The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?
Momma Angel wrote:
I was just watching the news and it seems that evidence has been found under a prison in Meggido (spelling?). I tried to find something in the news on the net but can't find anything. Does anyone know anything about this? Can you provide a link or some direction?

Thanx!


Are you referring to Mamertine prison, under the Church of S. Guiseppi? This is claimed to be the last prison of St. Peter and St. Paul.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:38 am
Quote:
Earliest church found
DPA
08nov05

WORKERS at an archeological dig next to an Israeli prison close to the site of the biblical Armageddon have uncovered the remains of a church believed to be among the earliest ever found.

The remains were found two weeks ago while excavations were being carried out before issuing building permits for a new wing of the Megiddo prison, in northern Israel. The wing houses security prisoners.
Found on the floor of the structure was an inscription written in Greek dedicating the monument to the "Lord Jesus Christ".


http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5071729,00.jpg
Remains: Two prison inmates clean a mosaic on the floor of what is believed to be an ancient church in Megiddo, Israel.
Picture: Reuters
Source
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:42 am
Walter,

That's it! Thank you so much. I hope they report more on this soon. I think this is such exciting news!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:44 am
It cannot have been too terribly early, as it was not until the end of the second century that the adherents of that sect actually began to call themselves Christians, or to refer to the Rabbi Yeshuah by the Greek name, Jesu Chrisit, meaning Joshuah the Savior.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:54 am
Quote:
Holy Land's 'oldest church' found at Armageddon

Prisoners help unearth remains at jail on site of final biblical showdown

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
Monday November 7, 2005
The Guardian

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2005/11/07/mosaic372.jpg
Two inmates clean a section of the mosaic floor discovered at Megiddo prison in Israel. Photograph: Ariel Schalit/AP

As if Megiddo, the biblical city of Armageddon - scene of three millennia of battles, the last cavalry charge of the first world war and the final showdown between good and evil - did not have enough on its plate. Archaeologists now claim to have unearthed the remains of the oldest Christian church discovered in the Holy Land.
Unfortunately for Israel's beleaguered tourism industry, the find was made behind the walls of one of the country's maximum security prisons.

Inmates were put to work alongside the specialists to excavate a corner of Megiddo jail for the construction of a new cell block ready for the next intake of Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants.
Toiling behind the barbed wire and watchtowers, they uncovered a detailed and well-preserved mosaic, the foundations of a rectangular building, and pottery dated to the third or early fourth century. One of several inscriptions on the mosaic floor in ancient Greek said the building was dedicated to "the memory of the Lord Jesus Christ".

Other inscriptions name a Roman army officer, Gaianus, who donated money to build the floor, and a woman called Ekoptos who "donated this table to the God Jesus Christ in commemoration". The table is believed to have served as an altar.

"There are no crosses on the mosaic floor," said Yotam Tepper, an archaeologist who led the dig on behalf of the Israeli Antiquities Authority. "In their place is a picture of two fish lying side by side - a very early Christian symbol.

"This is an extremely dramatic discovery, because such an old building of this type has never been found either in the land of Israel or anywhere else in the entire region. The structure and the mosaic floor date back to the period before Christianity became an officially recognised religion, before St Constantine.

"Normally we have from this period in our region historical evidence from literature, not archaeological evidence. There is no structure you can compare it to - it is a unique find."

The Roman empire forbade Christian rituals before AD313 and Christians were forced to worship in secret. The earliest churches, until this discovery at Megiddo, include the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, said to stand on the site of Christ's crucifixion, dating from about AD330, and the church of the Nativity in Bethlehem. The inscriptions at Megiddo were interpreted by Professor Leah Di Segni of the Hebrew University.

"I was told these were Byzantine but they seem much earlier than anything I have seen so far from the Byzantine period. It could be from the third or the beginning of the fourth century," she said.The use of the word "table" in one inscription instead of "altar" might advance the study of Christianity, she said, because it is widely believed that rituals based on the Last Supper were held around a table used as an altar.

The church might never have been discovered had it not been for the needs of Israel's ever-demanding security apparatus. Megiddo prison is home to about 1,200 "security prisoners" who are held in "administrative detention" without ever being told exactly what it is they are accused of.

The prison is a series of fenced-in compounds with the bulk of inmates sleeping in long brown army tents enclosed by barbed wire and surrounded by open sewers. The prisoners nicknamed the jail "Jabaliya" after a poor and overcrowded refugee camp in the Gaza strip.

Megiddo has long been described by religious scholars and archaeologists as the most important biblical site in Israel. Over the centuries, more than 25 cities rose and fell at Megiddo. Some were powerful commercial centres on the ancient thoroughfare between Egypt and Mesopotamia.

Five of the conflicts fought in the 30-mile-wide Jezreel valley around Megiddo are recorded in the Old Testament. The New Testament names Armageddon - a Greek corruption of the Hebrew word "har", meaning mount, and Megiddo - as the scene of the final great battle between good and evil.

Some specialists remain sceptical about the latest discovery. "I think this is a little myth to boost tourism," said Michel Piccirillo, a respected biblical archaeologist. "The idea that it is ancient comes from the pottery and the shape of the letters on the inscriptions, but this is not definitive."

Israel's tourism minister, Avraham Hirchson, is not deterred. "If we nurture this properly, then there will be a large stream of tourists who could come to Israel. There is great potential ... " he told national television.

Source
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:00 am
The mosaic suggests a substantial investment in the structure and probably an official patron, the Byzantine government. At the beginning of the forth century the Byzantine government began a massive church building program as a way of solidifying the hold on the new government supported ideology on the countryside in the eastern empire. My bet is that this church is one of those that makes it not the earliest Christian church but one of the earliest official churches.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:11 am
As far as I remember, there were (recently?) some relicts of 'payer houses' found in Jordania which date back to 3rd century.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:13 am
Walter, do you have a link for that?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:18 am
Walter,

Thanx for finding that article. I think this is wonderful news!
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:33 am
actually there a quit a number of ruins of "christian" churchs from the 4th century. What seems important about this is one is the Israel expects this one to become a good tourist attraction.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:36 am
Well, I think it has much more significance to it than that. Megiddo is referenced in the Bible. This church is the earliest know (so far it seems). They weren't even using crosses at the time as a sign of Christianity. They were using the fish. At the date of this church, Christianity was still banned. It would be another 100 years before Rome embraced Christianity.

I would imagine it would bring in some tourist trade. I wish I could go see it! But, I hardly think that is the importance of the find, though it may be to some.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:37 am
ah just googled this.
Quote:
Joe Zias, an anthropologist and a former curator with the Israel Antiquities Authorities, said there were no churches before the 4th century.

"The earliest it could be is 4th century and we have other 4th-century churches. I think what is important here is the size, the inscription and the mosaics," he said.

"I think it is an important find ... but I wouldn't say it was the oldest church in the world."

Still, the find is stoking a frenzy in Israel.

There is speculation the entire prison may be moved so that a tourist attraction can open in its place.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051106/ancient_rhurch_051106/20051106?hub=CTVNewsAt11
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:41 am
Well, perhaps what Joe Zias should have said is up until now there has been no physical evidence of any churches before the 4th century?

They are still investigating this. No one has said it is definitive yet. And there will still be those that won't believe it even if it is proven.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:48 am
We must remember that prior to this, the Christians had to worship in private. They used whatever abodes, caves etc. they could so we would not expect to find evidence of them.

The fish significance is interesting. It is said that when 2 Christians met and did not know each other, one would draw an arch in the sand. If the other drew the opposing arch....to make a fish.... then they knew that they were in the presence of another Christian. I don't know for sure that it is true, but it makes sense and is a good story.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:51 am
Yeah we must remember this. why?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:54 am
dyslexia wrote:
Yeah we must remember this. why?


Well, that was not an order. You don't have to remember if you don't want to. Laughing

My point was only that there would not necessarily be any evidence of very early churches for the very reason I stated. Perhaps I should have left out "you have to remember" part for those who take things literal to the nth degree. Cool
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:56 am
my response was not "literal," it was a question of relevance.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 11:57 am
I don't see the relevance to my post, but then again I am not too bright
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