The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?

I guess you've forgotten that I'm also a Christian, MoAn.

I'd be interested to hear what some of our members, with education and practical experience in the fields of history, sociology and archaeology, have to say about this find. Many of them are unlikely to wander into this particular forum.

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Intrepid wrote:

It is said that when 2 Christians met and did not know each other, one would draw an arch in the sand.

That's what I was taught in religion class. I don't know what the evidence is, but this little fact appears to be fairly well established.

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Walter,

I understand that. That's why I said I realize it doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Bless you Walter! That is such glorious news to hear!

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ehBeth,

No, I haven't forgotten that you are a christian. I guess this is just one of those subjects that maybe could be either/or depending upon one's view.

I am glad there is this interest in this topic because I am fascinated by it and really wanted to hear what others thought. So, if it gets moved, I will follow!

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dyslexia wrote:

So anyway, this brings to my mind a simple question, was jesus a jew or a christian?

Jesus was a Jew of course -- for the same reason why Marx was not a Marxist and Freud not a Freudian. (Not sure why this matters any more than whether this church is the oldest one.)

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Well Thomas, mostly just my own curiosity, in an historical sense, I wonder just when "christianity" came about, I mean like here we are talking about "oldest christian church" and I'm curious about when "christianity" started as a religion that would have a church.

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dys,

Christianity came about with the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

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Thomas wrote:

Intrepid wrote:
It is said that when 2 Christians met and did not know each other, one would draw an arch in the sand.

That's what I was taught in religion class. I don't know what the evidence is, but this little fact appears to be fairly well established.

... and it is much older than Christianity: it's the ('universal') sign of the "Great Mother Goddess", like for the Germanic 'Freya', the Egytian 'Isis' ...

My sister's classmate, professor for Christian Social Ethics etc, bishop of Trier/Trèves, always said: 'those old Christians knew very well how to transform old stories to their purpose'.

It is a nice story.

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Thomas, in an attempt to clarify my quesiton using your analogy, Marx stated and displayed a theory of "marxism" that can be clearly identified as such, he did not start by saying "I am a capitalist or a feudalist, he started with and ended with a thory of "marxism". I don't see that in the story of jesus becoming "christianity." Again my question is hisstorical, when/how did jesus the jew become jesus the founder of "christianity" in an historical sense? Any clearer? This question of mine is not, in any way, a religious question.

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Dys, the likeliest answer, and one christians will dispute, is that Yeshuah the Rabbi, became Jesu Christ--Joshuah the Savior--at the time that Saul of Tarsus (aka St. Paul) began working over the sect and turning it into a monotheistic version of Greek philosophy. There is not only no evidence that there was a belief in Yeshuah as a messiah before that time, there is good reason to believe that the whole death/resurrection idea was introduced by Saul, who set about quickly adding aspects of popular religions already practiced in the Roman Empire. You can see why christians won't like to admit any of that.

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Jesus lived and died like a Jew.

And somilar to Marx, who didn't 'invent' the term Marxism himself but that was given later by his supporters, ... well, Set put in different words in the meantime ... I wanted to say, the more academic followers just created this term.

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yes Walter I think I understand that, what I am asking is, historically, when did this establishment of "christianity" take place and how did that come about?

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Setanta Wrote:

Quote:

Dys, the likeliest answer, and one christians will dispute, is that Yeshuah the Rabbi, became Jesu Christ--Joshuah the Savior--at the time that Saul of Tarsus (aka St. Paul) began working over the sect and turning it into a monotheistic version of Greek philosophy. There is not only no evidence that there was a belief in Yeshuah as a messiah before that time, there is good reason to believe that the whole death/resurrection idea was introduced by Saul, who set about quickly adding aspects of popular religions already practiced in the Roman Empire. You can see why christians won't like to admit any of that.

The only reason that Christians WON'T admit to that is because it is not true. Jesus Christ lived. Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins! Jesus Christ was ressurrected and ascended unto heaven and He is coming again very soon I believe.

http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/heart.gif

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Walter you say "Jesus lived and died like a Jew" is that different than saying jesus lived and died as a jew?

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Momma Angel wrote:

The only reason that Christians WON'T admit to that is because it is not true. Jesus Christ lived. Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins! Jesus Christ was ressurrected and ascended unto heaven and He is coming again very soon I believe.

If you contend that this horsie poop is true--prove it . . .

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Thaks Set, from my very little knowledge of christian history your explantion seems clearer than anything else I have read. What we now call christianity might more accurately be called "Saulism or Paulism" as jesus never said he was anthing other than a practicing jew.

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Don't stand in front of the Hey-Zeus crowd when ya say that, Dys, yer likely to get trampled . . .

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I'm armed

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Good lookin' out, Boss . . .

The most popular cult in Rome at the time that the Hey-Zeus frenzy started to heat up was the Zoarastrian cult of Mithras. Google up "mithraism" and see what you get. The Zoarastrians are also the ones who introduced an ignorant and supersitious lot of tribal nomads--the Jews--to monotheism during the Babylonian captivity. The Judeo-christian tradition contains very little original thought, and has always leaned heavily on whatever looked good on the other guy's plate . . .

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Roman Mithras was perhaps the greatest rival to early Christianity for many reasons. As well as being a popular pagan religion practised by the Roman Army, Mithraism had many similarities to Christianity. Mithras was born of a virgin, remained celibate, his worship involving baptism, the partaking of bread marked with a cross and wine as sacrificial blood, held Sundays sacred and Mithras was born on 25th of December. Mithraist called themselves 'brother' and were led by a priest called 'father' (Pater). The symbol of the father were a staff, a hooked sword, a ring and hat.

Just one passage quickly found on google. Check it out some time . . .

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The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?

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