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The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 02:54 pm
Roman Mithras was perhaps the greatest rival to early Christianity for many reasons. As well as being a popular pagan religion practised by the Roman Army, Mithraism had many similarities to Christianity. Mithras was born of a virgin, remained celibate, his worship involving baptism, the partaking of bread marked with a cross and wine as sacrificial blood, held Sundays sacred and Mithras was born on 25th of December. Mithraist called themselves 'brother' and were led by a priest called 'father' (Pater). The symbol of the father were a staff, a hooked sword, a ring and hat.

Just one passage quickly found on google. Check it out some time . . .
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:00 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
The only reason that Christians WON'T admit to that is because it is not true.


some Christians.
Not all.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:02 pm
dyslexia wrote:
What we now call christianity might more accurately be called "Saulism or Paulism" as jesus never said he was anthing other than a practicing jew.


Now, I don't know much about Catholicism, but I always thought that was why the Paulists were called the Paulists.

http://www.paulist.org/mission/mission.html

<I'll have to follow that link later>
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:22 pm
Paulism vs Paulists

Interesting stuff out there.

~~~~~~~

and for something slightly different

Peter Jennings/Beliefnet/Jesus and Paul

Some interesting debates all 'round the net on this issue.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:31 pm
Back to that historic church:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,538850,00.jpg

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,538857,00.jpg

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,538861,00.jpg

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,538859,00.jpg

They'll do deeper excavation [?] now to verify the age of the church.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:35 pm
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
If you contend that this horsie poop is true--prove it . . .


The Demand For A Sign

Matthew 16:1-4 ~ The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.

He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red, and in the morning, 'Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:40 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Thomas, in an attempt to clarify my quesiton using your analogy, Marx stated and displayed a theory of "marxism" that can be clearly identified as such, he did not start by saying "I am a capitalist or a feudalist, he started with and ended with a thory of "marxism".

Not quite. He started out sympathizing with people who called themselves communists, observing that their ideas were expressed to mushy and imprecisely to be effective, and writing the "Communist Manifesto" in an attempt to make it clearer and more philosophically coherent. Well, that's a strongly simplified account of what happened, but I don't think Marx ever called himself a Marxist implicitly, and he certainly didn't do it explicitly. Only later generations of communists did that.

dyslexia wrote:
I don't see that in the story of jesus becoming "christianity." Again my question is hisstorical, when/how did jesus the jew become jesus the founder of "christianity" in an historical sense?

Well, the bible describes the separation of the Christian community from mainstream Judaism in the Acts of the Apostles. Therefore, whether you believe their account of the facts or not, the separation must have been completed when the Acts were published. According to the Wikipedia article on this book, that happened around A.D 100, with different historians arguing for different dates between the years 80 and 115.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:00 pm
Thomas wrote:
He started out sympathizing with people who called themselves communists, observing that their ideas were expressed to mushy and imprecisely to be effective, and writing the "Communist Manifesto" in an attempt to make it clearer and more philosophically coherent. Well, that's a strongly simplified account of what happened, but I don't think Marx ever called himself a Marxist implicitly, and he certainly didn't do it explicitly. Only later generations of communists did that.


Engles observed - during his time as manager there - from 1842 till 1844 the working conditions in the "Engels and Emen cotton-spinning factory" in Manchester.

The result: The Condition of the Working Class in England, published in Leipzig in 1845.

In June 1847, at a congress in London convened by a German radical group calling themselves the "League of the Just", Engels persuades the delegates that they need a new name and new statutes. The choose "Communist League".
This is the very first time that term appered in this context.

'The aim of the League is the downfall of the bourgeoisie and the ascendancy of the proletariat, the abolition of the old society based on class conflicts and the foundation of a new society without classes and without private property.' Soon a pamphlet is on sale in Drury Lane, aimed at German workers in London and headed with a new slogan: 'Workers of the world, unite!'

And in 1848, they publish a manifesto, which started with 'A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of communism.' - the famous "Communist Manifesto".


A small correction - since I've sat twice at the very place in Chethams Library, where Marx and Engles used to sit and talk :wink:
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 04:00 pm
.. and continued with the Council of Nicea which I just finished summarizing for MA on another thread here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1659445#1659445
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:10 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Setanta Wrote:

Quote:
If you contend that this horsie poop is true--prove it . . .


The Demand For A Sign

Matthew 16:1-4 ~ The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.

etc., blah, blah, blah


Your exegesis proves nothing.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:12 pm
It wasn't offered as proof, Set, and I believe you know that. Faith requires no proof.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:24 pm
MA was quizical
studied metaphyscial
history
in the hall
delighted in the fall
didn't take the call
answered for all.
Don't like historical,
prefer the allegorical,
facts get in the way
of having her say
'cause her mind's made up
got Welchs' in her cup
she a protestant gol'damnit
she takes her truth the way she wants it.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 05:26 pm
http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/bigeyedsmiley.gifActually dys, I think these words are so much better!


Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, Who called me here below,
Shall be forever mine.

When we've been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we'd first begun.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 06:00 pm
Yeah probably MA, but as usual I try to deal with reality and that's enough to keep me busy.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 06:07 pm
dys, this is reality.

Just as I am without one plea but that Thy blood was shed for me

And that Thou bid'st me come to Thee oh lamb of God I come I come

Just as I am and waiting not to rid my soul of one dark blot

To Thee who's blood can cleanse each spot oh lamb of God I come I come

Just as I am Lord Thou tossed about with many a conflict and many a doubt

Fightings fears within and without oh lamb of God I come I come

Just as I am Thou wilt recieve will dwell come pardon cleanse relieve

Because Thy promise I believe oh lamb of God I come I come
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 06:11 pm
She can't convert anybody so she will simply outlast them.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 07:06 pm
You are right edgar, I cannot convert anyone, nor am I trying to. I'm just putting words to me that fit better than the ones that dys posted.
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 09:17 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
She can't convert anybody so she will simply outlast them.


That was genius. Laughing

[size=7]love you MA[/size]
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 09:26 pm
To be honest, I took it as a compliment!http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/boxing.gif
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:13 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
It wasn't offered as proof, Set, and I believe you know that. Faith requires no proof.
MA;
Some readings for you:
Hebrews 11:1
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Acts 17:11

Faith without proof is credulity.
0 Replies
 
 

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