The Oldest Known Christian Church in the Middle East?

You, apparently, have very low expectations

Now that the mealy-mouthed psalm-singers have had their little rants, perhaps we can return to the subject of the archaeological dig.

The floor mosaics are wonderful. The care lavished on the structure combined with the dating of the pottery finds giving, possibly, a third century date, strongly suggest a church erected after official imperial sanction of the cult. Although Constantine issued an edict of toleration in 313, he was not master of the empire until his final defeat of Licinius in 325. Contrary to christian propaganda, Constantine did not make christianity the state religion, and he took his role as Pontifex Maximus seriously. He did suppress divinition by charlatans going into private homes, but it is false that he suppressed "pagan practices," as far too many christian "scholars" charge--even that old rogue Eusebius acknowledges the protection of and fostering of the practices of popular "pagan" cults by Constantine.

Such a richly decorated church, with a dedicatory inscription by an imperial officer suggests mid-third century or later. Constantine died in 337, so it may have been erected during the reign of his son, Constantius.

It's an exciting find.
I'll be watching to see what the folks with education in this matter can show me.

The mosaics truly are beautiful. I wish I had that kind of talent. I'll be interested to know WHO layed those tiles and actually constructed the building.

I don't get it. If Constantine died in 337, that is the 4th century, no?

My take on Constantine is he merely dusted over some pagan traditions in order to make 'christianity' more palpable to the masses.

I think if we were to discover who layed the tiles, we would be outraged

There were contractors that did these things and thy would do a Pagan Bath House as quickly as a Christian Church...as long as the check cleared.

You got me Boss, i ought to have written fourth century and not third century. But in future, when this thread is buried and forgotten, i'll never admit it publicly. I'm going to get some info on Constantine as Pontifex Maximus.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

For a time it seemed as if merely tolerance and equality were to prevail. Constantine showed equal favour to both religious. As pontifex maximus he watched over the heathen worship and protected its rights. The one thing he did was to suppress divination and magic; this the heathen emperors had also at times sought to do. Thus, in 320, the emperor forbade the diviners or haruspices to enter a private house under pain of death. Whoever by entreaty or promise of payment persuaded a haruspex to break this law, that man's property should be confiscated and he himself should be burned to death. Informers were to be rewarded. Whoever desired to practise heathen usages must do so openly. He must go to the public altars and sacred places, and there observe traditional forms of worship. "We do not forbid", said the emperor, "the observance of the old usages in the light of day." And in an ordinance of the same year, intended for the Roman city prefects, Constantine directed that if lightning struck an imperial palace, or a public building, the haruspices were to seek out according to ancient custom what the sign might signify, and their interpretation was to be written down and reported to the emperor. It was also permitted to private individuals to make use of this old custom, but in following this observance they must abstain from the forbidden sacrificia domestica. A general prohibition of the family sacrifice cannot be deduced from this, although in 341 Constantine's son Constantius refers to such an interdict by his father (Cod. Theod., XVI, x, 2).

My reading is that Saul of Tarsus and his succeeding adherents were responsible for adding the popular elements of "pagan" worship to christianity--i may be wrong about that, but unlikely to admit it.

*********************

You gave me a good chuckle with that one Acq . . . but i'm mystified about how the check clears . . .

source: National Geographic (with another report)

The newly discovered building most likely wasn't used that early for religious purposes? So, just what he think it would have been used for?

jai alai
A court game in which players use a long hand-shaped basket strapped to the wrist to propel a ball against a wall.

Hi dys!

How are you doing today?

The Paulists mentioned there are a religious order in the Catholic Church
more formerly known as "The Society of St. Paul."
(A good friend of mine is a Paulist priest.)

I don't know what happened to it but I had put a heart at the end of that how are you today for dys. Where did it go? Well, here it is!

Ok, my computer is doing weird things. I pulled up the latest post and my heart was gone! Now, I just posted again, and it's back! Oh well, can't have too much love!

Well, it seems, Momma, you don't know about Roman villas.



Virtual visit

Found some additional info in this article which appeared in the Austin Statesman on Nov. 7, originally written by Scott Wilson, Washington Post.

..."The most important thing about this is that it is the oldest Christian building we have found in archaeological form," said Yotam Teper, the archeologist in charge of the excavation. "The problem is that we didn't have churches at that time."

Some archeologists not involved in the project said the conclusions, though tantalizing, might be premature given that only 10 percent of the site has been excavated. Workers have yet to turn up a dated inscription or other evidence that firmly establishes the year the structure was built.

Zeev Weiss, an archeologist professor at Hebrew university in Jerusalem who runs the largest excavation project in the Galilee region, said: "There is no question that what they have found is connected to Christianity. The only questions concern the design of the structure, the use of the structure and the date. To my mind, they don't really know what they have."]

The Israeli army built the Megiddo prison in 1982, and the compound now holds 1,200 high-security Palestinian inmates. Earlier this year, the army turned over the collection of tent encampments to the national prison authority which has been replacing the tents with hardened cellblocks.

Archeologists were well aware of the rich history of Megiddo, also know as Armageddon, the place where the Bible says the ultimate battle of good and evil will be waged. Because of that history, archaeological excavation has preceded each phase of the prison's expansion.

Israeli prisoners, the only inmages allowed to work inside the grounds, began about six weeks ago surveying the area where the mosaic floor was found. It was scheduled to be cleared for construction two days after the discovery was made.

Covered by scaffolding and a black tarp, the site is roughly the size of a tennis court, with fragile mosaics covering approximately half of it.

Tepper said the building does not follow the basilica plan, characterized by collonades along a central nave leading to a rounded apse. He said the simple design suggests that it predates Christianity's legalization.

The oldest definitively dated church in Israel is in Ramle, where inscriptions say, the structure was built in 376.

Some archeologists believe that the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, which tradition says marks the spot where Jesus was crucified and entombed, was build in 330 by Constantine's mother. This site would predate those by decades.

The base of a column is visible along the low ruins of one wall. Archaeologists say it arched over the floor to support a stone roof, indicating that the building was probably among the grandest in the area.

The intricacy of the mosaic floors also suggests that it was more than a private home, archaeologists say. Altlhough some of the region's wealthy residents might have had such design flourishes in their houses.

In the coming weeks Israeli officials will determine what to do with the site. The options include digging up the area and moving it or separating it from the rest of the prison and making it the centerpiece of a small museum.

dys, of course Jesus was Jewish, he was called Rabbi. According to my studies he was just the most knowledgeable teacher that the common Jew had ever known. The only people he talked against were the fundamentalists of the times, the Saducees and Pharisees. They gave mere lip service to Biblical teachings and he called them hypocrits. We have lots of those today, too.

Jesus said "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." and advised "Seek ye first The Kingdom."

You might say he became that "Kingdom," lived from what he described as "the Father within." Certainly he would have access to all knowledge, could perform healing miracles, and people would be compelled to listen to such a man. I think he was a man, but also God -- just as we are. I don't think he meant to have people "worship" him, but to listen and follow his message.

Walter,

Thank you for posting that. I really was just asking a question and hope no one thought I was being smart mouthed.

Sunlover,

Thank you also for posting that information. I wish I had more time to actually look some of this stuff up myself. I do work at my computer all day and I can pop in and out of A2K pretty quickly but I am not afforded the time to surf like I would like to!

Momma Angel you seem to post here rather heavily, and well. I wouldn't have thought you worked on a daily basis. I don't but would prefer to get out and be with other real live people. Next to dogs, cats and horses, I love people. Oh, jeeez, just kidding.

The article was in our local newspaper yesterday - Austin American Statesman.

Sunlover,

I run a homeless cat shelter and a private non-profit organization. Believe me, I have plenty of contact with people! I type nearly 125 words per minute so it only takes me a sec or so!

When you post images from another site on the net, you are at the mercy of not only your download speed, but also the speed of the server hosting the image. My server for those smileys is slow but cheap.