9th circuit does it again,you cant teach your kids

And let me define "sex ed." I think kids should be aware of the basic mechanics of sex. And I think kids should be taught the possible consequences of sex, and how significantly those consequences can affect their lives.

I have a hard time believing that any kid can be kept ignorant of sex in this day and age. It's just too prevalent in our culture.

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But they are...there are way too many teenagers who don't know how you get pregnant.

I was on a forum once and so many teen girls were asking "If we rub together with our clothes on and he comes, can I get pregnant?" or "Can you get pregnant from a blow job?" It seems ridiculous but there were so many "silly" questions it made me realize how ignorant we are as a society when it comes to sex.

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Quote:

Again, as to the point of the thread, the school should have told the parents exactly what this survey was about and the nature of the questions. Then parents could have made an informed decision before signing off on the consent form. Obviously, this was not done.

That, and the original point of the thread, I agree with you completely; I believe that schools should simply err on the side of caution in any cases having to do with sexuality.

Quote:

The whole issue is really not a knock on schools trying to teach sex education, but rather a knock on parents who happily give up their responsibilities to school systems that schools should not have to handle.

I understand this viewpoint. I don't have a problem with teaching sexual education in schools, at home, or wherever. Frankly, if people were more open about sexual matters, we would have a lot less problems in our society; repression and shame screw a lot of people up when it comes to sex.

Cycloptichorn

ps buy ya a beer anytime!

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I would bet that most of the teen girls did indeed go through a sex ed class. So why did they not learn anything?

Whether we expect sex education to come through the home or through the classroom, there will be a certain percentage who will not learn anything at all. I spent two years in a French class in high school and couldn't speak or write in french any better afterward than before. Some people will just not learn regardless.

The fact that some people have no clue about sex does not mean it has to be the school's responsibility to have sex ed classes.

Again, Bella and Drew, I know exactly where you are coming from. I really have no big problem with sex ed in school for those parents who wish their children to go through those classes. I just think it is an area that should not be delagated to the schools.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
Again, as to the point of the thread, the school should have told the parents exactly what this survey was about and the nature of the questions. Then parents could have made an informed decision before signing off on the consent form. Obviously, this was not done.

That, and the original point of the thread, I agree with you completely; I believe that schools should simply err on the side of caution in any cases having to do with sexuality.

Quote:
The whole issue is really not a knock on schools trying to teach sex education, but rather a knock on parents who happily give up their responsibilities to school systems that schools should not have to handle.

I understand this viewpoint. I don't have a problem with teaching sexual education in schools, at home, or wherever. Frankly, if people were more open about sexual matters, we would have a lot less problems in our society; repression and shame screw a lot of people up when it comes to sex.

Cycloptichorn

ps buy ya a beer anytime!

Agreed Cy. Parents should be open to talking about sex with their children. Many don't. As a Christian, I have certain moral values concerning sex that I have taught my children. Often I think some religious people look at sex as something dirty and their kids do suffer because of it. My wife and I are rather open when it comes to discussing sex with our kids.......hmmm, maybe that did not come out quite right. Sometimes I wonder if we are too open. But the point is we do not give our kids the idea that sex is something not to be talked about. They know they can come to us with questions and we will answer them. Except for the one my 19 yr old asked the other night.........

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Now you have to tell us.

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Bella Dea wrote:

Now you have to tell us.

I don't know. It wasn't any real big deal, mind you. My wife was heading into bed about 9pm (a bit early than normal) and she stopped before heading down the hall to ask if I was going to come into bed with her. My ever alert 19 yr old looked at me after she went down the hall and asked me if that was mom's way of letting me know I could get some tonight.

I told him that was none of his business and I would not answer such a question. Of course, then I said goodnight and jumped up and went to bed. I'm no dummy. :wink:

Of course, I guess he had his answer. Which is why he told me to have fun instead of goodnight.

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That's actually pretty funny. Most 19 year olds would be screaming "My ears! My ears are bleeding!" at the mere insinuation of their parents "doing it".

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Naw, that would be my 14 yr old. Although he likes to kid a bit also. If my wife and I kiss each other in front of him, he likes to say something along the lines of "Oh yeah, baby, do it all night long."

I think that comes from the movie "The Waterboy" with Adam Sadler. He picked up that line and has made it his own.

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Re-reading the thread and noticed at the top of this page: you can't spell "sexed" without "sex ed."

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CoastalRat wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
And I do not consider sex education to be a public health issue.

I just don't see how you can say this, for two reasons:

1. Abortions

2. STD's

Both of which are consequences of a lack of education, and both of which carry great problems for our society.

Greater education would help alleviate both problems. This could have nothing but positive effects for our society.

Of course, the solution to both of these is to teach kids to use condoms; but am I wrong in thinking that you disagree with this approach? If so, why?

Cycloptichorn

I'll answer if you promise not to take back your offer of buying me a drink? (From another thread) :wink:

STD's and abortions are not, in my opinion, consequences of a lack of education. They are the consequences of a promiscuous lifestyle.

.

Hey William Shakespeare, do you know what the word "promiscous" means? Look it up. A girl can be a virgin, have sex a single time and get pregnant. Having sex a single time is not "being promiscuous." i rmemebr hearing girls say that you can't get pregant the first time and all kinds of other myths.

With your repressed attitude toward sex and you being your kids sole Sex Ed teacher, I just really wonder how much you have fuckeed up your kids attitudes toward sex as well as protecting themselves against pregnancy and STDs.

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CoastalRat wrote:

I would bet that most of the teen girls did indeed go through a sex ed class. So why did they not learn anything?

Rat, that is a real strawman there. The same girls who repeat the myths probably flunked math too. So what?

BTW what makes you qualified to teach sex education? Have you taken courses on STDs? Or been schooled on the proper ways to prevent pregancy, proper use of condoms, etc. Do you have the props to show your kids how to put on and wear a condom. Have you discussed homosexuality and bi-sexuality with your kids?

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Take it from Harper, he/she has probably experienced most STD's first hand.

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twin_peaks_nikki wrote:

Hey William Shakespeare, do you know what the word "promiscous" means? Look it up. A girl can be a virgin, have sex a single time and get pregnant. Having sex a single time is not "being promiscuous." i rmemebr hearing girls say that you can't get pregant the first time and all kinds of other myths.

With your repressed attitude toward sex and you being your kids sole Sex Ed teacher, I just really wonder how much you have **** up your kids attitudes toward sex as well as protecting themselves against pregnancy and STDs.

How old are you, 12? Have you managed to understand any of the previous conversation? His children have been taught about sex and from what I read, will not have any hang ups about it. Where is this hostile attitude coming from? Are you bitter over some man that you feel you must take it out on one? Or are you always this bitchy? Your name calling and unwarranted insults against a family you don't know are just juvenile and sad. I suggest if you want to play grown up you act like one.

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McGentrix wrote:

Take it from Harper, he/she has probably experienced most STD's first hand.

Bizarre and totally out of line. Coming from McG it's expected.

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twin_peaks_nikki wrote:

CoastalRat wrote:
I would bet that most of the teen girls did indeed go through a sex ed class. So why did they not learn anything?

Rat, that is a real strawman there. The same girls who repeat the myths probably flunked math too. So what?

BTW what makes you qualified to teach sex education? Have you taken courses on STDs? Or been schooled on the proper ways to prevent pregancy, proper use of condoms, etc. Do you have the props to show your kids how to put on and wear a condom. Have you discussed homosexuality and bi-sexuality with your kids?

What qualifies you to teach all of us? Making the assumption that the girls who repeat the myths "flunked math too" is asinine. Ignorance is no excuse but it sure is a reason. Why does it matter so much to you if his kids are schooled properly? You don't seem to care about anyone but yourself.

You have no idea how to discuss something without tearing the other person down which leads me to believe you have no tools to argue with. You've yet to respond to any of my posts so it is apparent you are "out to get" certain posters which makes you a troll and no one likes a troll. If you have something to contribue, please do but there isn't a shortage of nasty people who can't do anything but toss around insults so if that is all you are capable of you might want to reconsider posting on threads that have debates in them.

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Bella, when you have something of substance to say, I will respond. Meantime, a valium might help.

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I'm wondering why this ended up in the courts. If the parents complained about the questions and the schools stopped giving the surveys then why the lawsuit for unspecified damages? If the school insisted on continuing to try to get parents to sign release forms and only stopped after the suit was filed then I guess I get it but by then wouldn't the parents simply refuse? Why take this to court?

I think the parents should have been better informed as to what the survey would include and I think first grade is too young. The questions are too explicit for third graders and fifth graders would probably lie, so I don't see the point. I do think that schools should provide sex ed even though my kids were well informed at home (with explicit instructions to not give out info on the playground, bus or elsewhere). I think it is the parent's responsibility to teach their kids about sex but I don't think many parents take on that responsibility adequately. I don't like that it falls to the schools, but it needs to fall somewhere.

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J_B wrote:

I'm wondering why this ended up in the courts. If the parents complained about the questions and the schools stopped giving the surveys then why the lawsuit for unspecified damages? If the school insisted on continuing to try to get parents to sign release forms and only stopped after the suit was filed then I guess I get it but by then wouldn't the parents simply refuse? Why take this to court?

The simple answer to this is "to prevent the schools from doing it again."

But most of the rest of this discussion is moot since the case was never about sex ed to begin with (it was a survey, there was no accompanying education - i.e. no information was passed from educator to student) and the parent's claim was stupid in that they claimed "exculsive" right to determine what information is presented in school.

I'd agree that the parents should have been better informed on the contents of the survey but the parent's tactic should have been to take over the school board (through elections or appointments) and influence what the school allows for course and survey content.

Personaly, I have great disdain for those that use the schools and school children as their captive subjects in studies to begin with so if I were on the school board I'd have fought to prevent this Psychology student from ever even starting the survey. I sent my child to school to learn, not be some other student's lab expirement.

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The crux of the matter is the fundamentalist right's attempt to bar sex education from public schools. Read between the lines.

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9th circuit does it again,you cant teach your kids

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