92
   

Atheists... Your life is pointless

Forums: Atheists, Spirituality And Religion, Krishnamurti, Izanami, Izanagi
Email this Topic • Print this Page
 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:39 am
Quote: "I mean to say that belief is based on the reasoning of the person believing it."

The problem with this statment is "what" belief are you talking about? If the belief can be challenged with scientific evidence, is that belief still valid?

You are saying as most people of religion that logic and science has no place in religion.

Fine.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:40 am
OK but belief is not necessary based on reasoning as I showed earlier:

I will reason that a wrist watch is a mechanism to keep time while you will reason that a wrist watch is something to eat. The two reasonings and their methods to reach their differing conclusions are not equal in merit.

Check out the dictionary definition of the two words

Belief: mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something

Reason: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:45 am
Chumly, Do you know what a "straw man" is?
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:49 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Quote: "I mean to say that belief is based on the reasoning of the person believing it."

The problem with this statment is "what" belief are you talking about? If the belief can be challenged with scientific evidence, is that belief still valid?

You are saying as most people of religion that logic and science has no place in religion.

Fine.


*gag *gag... don't mind me... I'm just choaking on the words you are putting in my mouth... ahem... there much better!

CI what belief I am talking about (which really is no specific belief) is totally irrelevant to this issue. It doesn't matter if it can be proved scientifically or not. If you believe that you can scientifically prove that God does not exist, then that is your reasoning behind believing that. Therefore believing anything has a reasoning of some sort behind it. Whether it's logical to anyone outside of the person who believes it is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:52 am
hephi, be not lost so poorly in your thoughts.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:53 am
Chumly wrote:
OK but belief is not necessary based on reasoning as I showed earlier:

I will reason that a wrist watch is a mechanism to keep time while you will reason that a wrist watch is something to eat. The two reasonings and their methods to reach their differing conclusions are not equal in merit.

Check out the dictionary definition of the two words

Belief: mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something

Reason: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence


No, belief is based on reasoning. That is my whole point. How does someone come to believe anything? By weighing the facts and reasoning it out.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 11:59 am
That's where you lose the screw that holds your argument together. " By weighing the facts and reasoning it out." Facts do not enter into reasoning there is a god.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:06 pm
Quote:
That's where you lose the screw that holds your argument together. " By weighing the facts and reasoning it out." Facts do not enter into reasoning there is a god.


You are right, not for you they don't... because what you count as fact and what I count as fact are two completely different things.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:20 pm
Ofcoarse they are! You can't support your's by specifics.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:21 pm
hephzibah wrote:
Chumly wrote:
OK but belief is not necessary based on reasoning as I showed earlier:

I will reason that a wrist watch is a mechanism to keep time while you will reason that a wrist watch is something to eat. The two reasonings and their methods to reach their differing conclusions are not equal in merit.

Check out the dictionary definition of the two words

Belief: mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something

Reason: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence


No, belief is based on reasoning. That is my whole point. How does someone come to believe anything? By weighing the facts and reasoning it out.
I will show you that belief does not have to be based on reasoning because:

1) Belief can be based on faith
2) Belief can be based on false reasoning, in which case the definition of the word reason is not truly applicable
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:23 pm
Chumly wrote:
Belief can be based on faith

HURRAY!
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:24 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Chumly, Do you know what a "straw man" is?
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:24 pm
Quote:
Belief can be based on false reasoning, in which case the definition of the word reason is not truly applicable


False reasoning is still a form of reasoning, is it not?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm
Sorry, Chumly, I jumped on your statement "I will reason that a wrist watch is a mechanism to keep time while you will reason that a wrist watch is something to eat" without reading the rest.

My apologies. Embarrassed Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:30 pm
hephzibah wrote:
Quote:
Belief can be based on false reasoning, in which case the definition of the word reason is not truly applicable


False reasoning is still a form of reasoning, is it not?
Yes you are right in the semantic sense, but in context here, in the pragmatic sense, the presumption is that the reasoning has merit.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:33 pm
Quote:
Reason: the capacity for logical, rational, and analytic thought; intelligence


ok so let me make sure I'm understanding you right... you are saying then that "false reasoning" does not fit into the definition of reasoning, correct? Which would then mean (at least to me) that intelligence does not apply to the person who is functioning in "false reasoning". So who then is able to say what is false reasoning and what is not?

By all means I am certain that my reasoning to you is false reasoning because you do not believe the same things that I consider facts. However, to me, your reasoning could be considered false reasoning because I may not believe the same things that you consider facts. So does that mean we are calling each other stupid? I'm not into name calling...
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:36 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Sorry, Chumly, I jumped on your statement "I will reason that a wrist watch is a mechanism to keep time while you will reason that a wrist watch is something to eat" without reading the rest.

My apologies. Embarrassed Embarrassed
No probs, I really did not want to use that example again as it did not quite fit, but I felt it worked best overall as I had used it earlier with my/our religious buddy Heph.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:36 pm
hep, All you need to do is make a statement about your belief, and the reason for that belief. We'll see where that takes us.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:39 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ofcoarse they are! You can't support your's by specifics.


No specifics that you would accept maybe. But that is not the point. The point is that beliefs are based on ones acceptance of facts as they see them. So who is to say who's facts are right?
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Wed 4 Jan, 2006 12:43 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
hep, All you need to do is make a statement about your belief, and the reason for that belief. We'll see where that takes us.


Ahh, one could only wish I would do such a foolish thing. Then I would be setting myself up to be ganged up on by a bunch of people who disagree with what I believe. What I believe or you believe concerning God and His existance, at least, is totally irrelevant to the current subject. Which is whether or not reasoning factors into belief.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Atheism - Discussion by littlek
WHY DOES THE TOPIC OF ATHEISTS BRING OUT THE CREEPS? - Discussion by Setanta
American Atheists Barred from holding Office - Discussion by edgarblythe
Why is it so important to refute Christianity? - Discussion by onyxelle
Richard Dawkins doesn't exist! - Question by Jay2know
The New State Religion: Atheism - Question by Expert2
Is Atheism the New Age Religion? - Question by Expert2
Critical thinking on the existence of God - Discussion by Susmariosep
Are evolution and the big bang true? - Discussion by Johnjohnjohn
To the people .. - Question by Johnjohnjohn
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Atheists... Your life is pointless
  3. » Page 70
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 05/11/2025 at 10:00:08
▲ ▼