Atheists... Your life is pointless

Doktor S wrote:

Quote:

Why did you choose 4 people? Do you see them as four seperate authorities unto themselves?

I chose 4 for simplicity. For the example we will assume all 4 are authorities on each of the 4 subjects listed for each.
I am unsure if you grasp the point I am trying to illustrate

Actually I think you guys see things in sort of a reverse way Mormans do.

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Bartikus wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
Most individuals have value to their family and friends.

This is true of anyone...but, what defines a friend to you. Can they insist a difference of opinion on a delicate or touchy matter and remain a friend?

Good question. It may be hard for you to believe, but my political and religious' beliefs are 360 degrees from all my siblings; they are all republicans and christians (married to christians), whereas, I am a atheist (married to a buddhist) and independent politcally. I love all my siblings. I have many friends that I have disagreements with on a regular basis. That doesn't take away from my friendship, and I daresay I love them all.

I just don't have patience or tolerance for any kind of bigot that would by word or action try to take away equal rights. Our family is made up of many races and cultures today that gives me hope and great satisfaction.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Bartikus wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Most individuals have value to their family and friends.

This is true of anyone...but, what defines a friend to you. Can they insist a difference of opinion on a delicate or touchy matter and remain a friend?

Good question. It may be hard for you to believe, but my political and religious' beliefs are 360 degrees from all my siblings; they are all republicans and christians (married to christians), whereas, I am a atheist (married to a buddhist) and independent politcally. I love all my siblings. I have many friends that I have disagreements with on a regular basis. That doesn't take away from my friendship, and I daresay I love them all.

I just don't have patience or tolerance for any kind of bigot that would by word or action try to take away equal rights. Our family is made up of many races and cultures today that gives me hope and great satisfaction.

What rights do you see being taken from atheists or your family members?

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As an atheist including family members, I don't see anything that resembles rights being taken away.

My position usually speaks for those in our society whose rights are being challenged by fundamentalist christians, and they include a) denying equal rights for gays and lesbians (I call "homophobic bigots), b) teaching ID as science (creationism is not science), and c) promoting the christian religion by our government (freedom of religion also means freedom from religion).

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cicerone imposter wrote:

As an atheist including family members, I don't see anything that resembles rights being taken away.

My position usually speaks for those in our society that whose rights are being challenged by fundamentalist christians, and they incllude a) denying equal rights for gays and lesbians, b) teaching ID as science, and c) promoting the christian relgion by our government.

I think Christianity is being promoted here as an appeal to the masses.

It's about the votes to those elected....they do not neccessarily believe as Christians do...they could be just good salesmen. Bringing about what many Christians think will be good for our country might bite them in the ass later.

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Mr. Farmerman,

I am feeling wonderful thank you. It is nice of you to ask. Actually, I have not changed personalities. I have just decided to not look at the negative of things and not to let other people get me upset in any way!

I feel wonderful! How are you? Laughing

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Bartikus,

Oh, don't be jealous! I have plenty of love and goodwill to go around!

I am enjoying your posts immensely by the way.

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Bartikus wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

Why did you choose 4 people? Do you see them as four seperate authorities unto themselves?

I chose 4 for simplicity. For the example we will assume all 4 are authorities on each of the 4 subjects listed for each.
I am unsure if you grasp the point I am trying to illustrate

Actually I think you guys see things in sort of a reverse way Mormans do.

Who are these 'you guys' you are trying to lump me in with?
What do you mean by 'the way mormons do'?

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farmerman wrote:

Momma, you feelin ok? Even though we disagree nightily, I get concerned when someone changes personalities in mid tirade.

My guess is that she has merely found a new way to grate fingernails down the chalkboard.

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Pretty interesting past few pages here - apart, mebbe from the sniping-with-peashooters that's popped up here and there, but nemmind.

Just wanna observe I happen to think some religionists - the more visible and activist sorts of the critter - are, and always have been, themselves part-and-parcel of the very exclusionist, elitist, bigotted, unreasoning discrimination, divisivness, hatred, ignorance and insecurity that has been humankind's greatest inconvenience and embarrassment throughout the ages.

Not that all religionist fall to the charge, for many - if not in fact most - are in just about all particulars decent folks. If that weren't the case, its doubtful humankind would have made it this far. One thing religion never has done is to bridge the gap of prejudice; its prime function seems to be the maintenance of the canyon, all the while denying such is the case; its "the 'others' who are wrong".

Trusting to magic, myths, superstition, and imaginary freinds are fine, I suppose, as long as the entertainment be not channeled into effort to convince others the notion behind such disingenuous foolishness has any empirical authority. I'd place atheists in general an ethical and intellectual cut above bible-thumpers in that regard; at least most atheists aren't out there proseltyzing on behalf of their belief set.

That aside, I can't buy either the religionist or the atheist proposition, and see them in some respects as equally insecure; adherents toeither belief set are taken of a need to "know" they have "the one-and-only-answer" to what amounts to an unresolved, quite possibly irresolvable, thesis.

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Mr. Mesquite Wrote:

Quote:

My guess is that she has merely found a new way to grate fingernails down the chalkboard.

And you think this because? So much for respect, I guess, huh? :wink:

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prolly somthing to do with emoticons and love.

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dyslexia wrote:

prolly somthing to do with emoticons and love.

Mr. Dyslexia,

I am working on that emoticon problem. :wink: It's a shame though, I think. That some would judge someone for having some kind of a problem like that.

I am attempting to meet disagreement with humor and a light heart. I do not want to get into arguing with anyone again. I see no reason for it.

Hmmmm. Funny, I thought that is how some of you thought Christians were supposed to act?

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timberlandko

You wrote

"That aside, I can't buy either the religionist or the atheist proposition, and see them in some respects as equally insecure; adherents to either belief set are taken of a need to "know" they have "the one-and-only-answer" to what amounts to an unresolved, quite possibly irresolvable, thesis."

I don't know to which atheists this refers but speaking for myself I am not aware of making any proposition other than we should recocognize the infantile folly of theism, based on the available historical evidence. It is a plea for "common sense" not a statement of "knowledge" or a solution to the nature of "existence". As you imply, there may no satisfactory solution to such a question, but the enquiry into such questions is surely one of the intellectual freedoms which religion tends to suppress.

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My point of contenton with both the religionist/deist and areligious/atheist belief set is the exclusionary absolutism inherent to embracing either proposition; both are purely, and equally, assumptive constructs.

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Momma Angel wrote:

dyslexia wrote:
prolly somthing to do with emoticons and love.

Mr. Dyslexia,

I am working on that emoticon problem. :wink: It's a shame though, I think. That some would judge someone for having some kind of a problem like that.

I am attempting to meet disagreement with humor and a light heart. I do not want to get into arguing with anyone again. I see no reason for it.

Hmmmm. Funny, I thought that is how some of you thought Christians were supposed to act?

And here I just assumed this was your attempt at sarcastic humour in an attempt to deflect rational argument.

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Most things we postulate in life are "assumptive constructs."

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timberlandko wrote:

My point of contenton with both the religionist/deist and areligious/atheist belief set is the exclusionary absolutism inherent to embracing either proposition; both are purely, and equally, assumptive constructs.

What exactly is it you think 'the atheist belief' is?
Sounds like you've talk to one too many apologists to me.

In fact, there is no atheist belief, and when you look closely you can see how ludicrous the idea of an a-theist belief is.
Simply, an atheist is someone that lacks a belief in god. The lack of belief can not itself BE a belief, as per the law of non contradiction.
Atheism and theism are not oposite sides of the same polemic fence, that is just something christians like to forward to advance their argument.
A theist is making a claim that something exists.
An atheist is not making a claim at all, an atheist is simply 'everyone else' that doesn't accept claims of spiritual boogeymen.

And pre-emptively, please do not go gather a bunch of dictionary references from christianized dictionaries that define atheist the wrong way. Simply more misinformation.
The OED is the only one worth anything.

And for the record, I am not an atheist.

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Timberlandko,

1. By definition a-theism is a rejection of theism.
The only "construct" involved is theism itself. Exclusion is built into the etymology.

2. All constructs are "assumptive" including concepts of "physical reality". The difference between religious constructs and others is their resistance to evidence against such assumptions.

3. Resolution of the dichotomy could theoretically take place at a transcendent level of analysis sometimes called "spirituality" provided that no anthropomorphic celestial deity is evoked.

EDIT: I acknowledge similar points posted above whilst writing this

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timberlandko wrote:

Pretty interesting past few pages here - apart, mebbe from the sniping-with-peashooters that's popped up here and there, but nemmind.

Just wanna observe I happen to think some religionists - the more visible and activist sorts of the critter - are, and always have been, themselves part-and-parcel of the very exclusionist, elitist, bigotted, unreasoning discrimination, divisivness, hatred, ignorance and insecurity that has been humankind's greatest inconvenience and embarrassment throughout the ages.

Not that all religionist fall to the charge, for many - if not in fact most - are in just about all particulars decent folks. If that weren't the case, its doubtful humankind would have made it this far. One thing religion never has done is to bridge the gap of prejudice; its prime function seems to be the maintenance of the canyon, all the while denying such is the case; its "the 'others' who are wrong".

Trusting to magic, myths, superstition, and imaginary freinds are fine, I suppose, as long as the entertainment be not channeled into effort to convince others the notion behind such disingenuous foolishness has any empirical authority. I'd place atheists in general an ethical and intellectual cut above bible-thumpers in that regard; at least most atheists aren't out there proseltyzing on behalf of their belief set.

That aside, I can't buy either the religionist or the atheist proposition, and see them in some respects as equally insecure; adherents toeither belief set are taken of a need to "know" they have "the one-and-only-answer" to what amounts to an unresolved, quite possibly irresolvable, thesis.

Are you more like an agnostic then? It is one thing to believe and is quite another to have seen. To know...is a whole other story entirely.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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