92
   

Atheists... Your life is pointless

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:03 pm
@FBM,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I agree, Spade.

That certainly is the way the people who thought Zeus existed found him.

Same with Osiris, Odin...and the other gods.

FBM wrote:
You see? Anything is possible if you simply aim your faith in that direction!



But what you both chose to selectively leave out is that I also said that doubt is the counterpart to faith...

Do people with doubts actually have faith about certain things? Or do they have doubts they have doubts? Which of course is faith once again...So how could anyone assert that faith is just not that worthy? Or irrational?

Especially you Frank, you claim you see no unambiguous evidence in either direction, or refuse to make a choice on a coin flip...but then also say that faith is illogical and you look for evidence...So how can you say that you do not see evidence in either direction? And not realize you follow a more irreligious path?, Since atheists claim to look for evidence and not faith? Are you claiming that you do not make a blind guess in either direction because atheism is a belief that Gods do not exist? And theists make a blind guess that Gods do exist using faith? Or are you saying you are not an atheist because they look for evidence and reject beliefs, but you could actually see a plausibility in beliefs...but do not do them yourself or fully accept faith?

What is an atheist to you? Someone who makes an assertion that Gods do not exist? How could they do this if they have no beliefs, and are strictly about rejecting beliefs, and using evidence, skepticism, or doubts? What else is there to doubt about the skeptic claim once one realizes they do not believe that any Gods exist? What other "beliefs" do people have that would require a skeptic claim?
MattDavis
 
  0  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:13 pm
@igm,
I of course accept your apology. Very Happy
You however have not answered the question of whether you may have cognitive "blind spots". I don't want to see this descend into a "he said, she said" quoting back and forth game, however.
If you would like to outline the assumptions you use to reach understanding, I would be happy to discuss them.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:30 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
But what you both chose to selectively leave out is that I also said that doubt is the counterpart to faith...


Really. Because you say so?

In my opinion, the “counterpart” to faith, is “flexibility” or “open-mindedness.” "Faith" (in the context in which we are using it) in my opinion is being stubborn about a guess.


Quote:


Do people with doubts actually have faith about certain things?


Or do they have doubts they have doubts? Which of course is faith once again...So how could anyone assert that faith is just not that worthy? Or irrational?

Especially you Frank, you claim you see no unambiguous evidence in either direction, or refuse to make a choice on a coin flip...but then also say that faith is illogical and you look for evidence...So how can you say that you do not see evidence in either direction? And not realize you follow a more irreligious path?, Since atheists claim to look for evidence and not faith? Are you claiming that you do not make a blind guess in either direction because atheism is a belief that Gods do not exist? And theists make a blind guess that Gods do exist using faith? Or are you saying you are not an atheist because they look for evidence and reject beliefs, but you could actually see a plausibility in beliefs...but do not do them yourself or fully accept faith?

What is an atheist to you? Someone who makes an assertion that Gods do not exist? How could they do this if they have no beliefs, and are strictly about rejecting beliefs, and using evidence, skepticism, or doubts? What else is there to doubt about the skeptic claim once one realizes they do not believe that any Gods exist? What other "beliefs" do people have that would require a skeptic claim?


Lots of questions marks here, Spade...very few actual questions. I see most of these supposed questions as statements or assertions you are making in the form of a question, because you apparently are not self-assured enough to make the statements or assertions as statements or assertions.

If you actually have questions for me...ask A question. I'll answer it...and I may ask you to ask a follow up question. But I may instead opt for a question of my own.

If you've got the stomach for it...ask away.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 04:39 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If you've got the stomach for it...ask away.

You know exactly what I have asked you...and why I have...If you have the stomach to take the time to answer the questions because you want to do it...then go ahead...

I am not willing to play this game again to validate myself or views in order for you to find a worthy reason to comment...It does not work that way...If you want to read and answer, go for it...If you do not, then don't...

It is not on me to try to persuade you of a worthy reason for you to oblige to answer me or anyone else...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 05:06 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I figured you wouldn't ask a single question. You just want to issue a bunch of proclamations disguised as questions...and make sure there are plenty of them. And I imagine in response to this...you will do more of the same.

If you wanted answers, Spade...you'd ask the most important question...and wait for the answer.

Obviously, you don't.

We've played your game before. I'm not playing it again.

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 05:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am not sure if this is a game for spades but I have asked him as well to keep it simple and to the point by asking one question at a time and see where it goes.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 05:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
But it is friggen stupid...and I am not even sure you understand how disgusting it actually sounds...It is almost like you are saying, I find your answers and questions so unworthy, that I would like you to try to persuade me of a meaningful reason to actually feel compelled or take the time to answer your questions for you...Or it basically sounds like you are saying I should try to beg and gravel or something just so that you will actually find it in you to take the time to find my comments worthy of your own personal subjective acceptance...Just so then you can explain to me how irrational and unworthy you think my views are...

It is down right patronizing of the highest level...When you claim you do not know things, so must be trying to find out how others think they can know things, or you must be trying to explain how you think no one else could know the things they claim they do...and the way you present yourself is very disingenuous to say the least...

Quote:
Ask A question and I will answer it

Fine, I will ask A single question for you Frank...and we can go one at a time...OK...

Quote:
In my opinion, the “counterpart” to faith, is “flexibility” or “open-mindedness.” "Faith" (in the context in which we are using it) in my opinion is being stubborn about a guess.

If you do not embrace atheism or theism's, and refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction, and this is truly how you actually feel...What "guess" do you think that an atheist is being stubborn about?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 05:42 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5276065)
I am not sure if this is a game for spades but I have asked him as well to keep it simple and to the point by asking one question at a time and see where it goes.


RL, his post contained 15 sentences and an introductory sentence fragment ...and there were 15 questions in it.

And he gets upset because I refused to allow him a prosecutorial position in a discussion.

He just doesn't get it!

If he has any guts at all (I am not accusing him of having any)...he will ask one question and we can discuss that until we resolve it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 05:43 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5276065)
But it is friggen stupid...and I am not even sure you understand how disgusting it actually sounds...It is almost like you are saying, I find your answers and questions so unworthy, that I would like you to try to persuade me of a meaningful reason to actually feel compelled or take the time to answer your questions for you...Or it basically sounds like you are saying I should try to beg and gravel or something just so that you will actually find it in you to take the time to find my comments worthy of your own personal subjective acceptance...Just so then you can explain to me how irrational and unworthy you think my views are...

It is down right patronizing of the highest level...When you claim you do not know things, so must be trying to find out how others think they can know things, or you must be trying to explain how you think no one else could know the things they claim they do...and the way you present yourself is very disingenuous to say the least...

Quote:
Ask A question and I will answer it

Fine, I will ask A single question for you Frank...and we can go one at a time...OK...

Quote:
In my opinion, the “counterpart” to faith, is “flexibility” or “open-mindedness.” "Faith" (in the context in which we are using it) in my opinion is being stubborn about a guess.

If you do not embrace atheism or theism's, and refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction, and this is truly how you actually feel...What "guess" do you think that an atheist is being stubborn about?


Read my reply to RL above...and figure out why you are the one sounding a bit off base.

As for considering your views unworthy...I do not find them unworthy...in fact, I do not find them at all. All I see are questions.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 06:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If you do not embrace atheism or theism's, and refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction, and this is truly how you actually feel...What "guess" do you think that an atheist is being stubborn about?

If the atheist is asserting, “There are no gods”…then that is what I think the atheist is being stubborn about.

NOT ALL atheists make that guess…many atheists simply assert that they are unwilling to “believe” in any of the gods currently being offered. (AND I DO NOT BLAME THEM…neither do I)

By the way…did I actually say “I refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction”…or did I say “I prefer not make a blind guess on a coin flip?”

Fact is, I have made a coin flip for a frivolous answer to that question in this forum on several occasions. I actually got a kick out of doing it. Got the coin that I use right here…its name is, Mr. Coin. It’s a Sacagawea Dollar.

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk17/frankapisa/dollar_zpsedbfd1bf.jpg

But I truly prefer not to do it.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 06:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Next single question...

Quote:
But I truly prefer not to do it.

Why make a guess if you do not want to do it, and do not know the answers to the "guess/es"?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 06:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Next single question...when you are ready...

Quote:
Read my reply to RL above...and figure out why you are the one sounding a bit off base.

If the atheist is asserting, “There are no gods”…then that is what I think the atheist is being stubborn about.

..................


If you are asking me for a single question, Can I ask you for one simple answer?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 06:27 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
If you are asking me for a single question, Can I ask you for one simple answer?


I can only guess that Frank would show you the same respect. Spades questions of truth or reality can often at times to seem as heated discussions but anyways I think Frank may try just as hard as you do to keep it civil but these subjects can at times seem as if others are not trying to share reality as we are trying. Wink
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 07:40 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5276115)
Next single question...

Quote:
But I truly prefer not to do it.

Why make a guess if you do not want to do it, and do not know the answers to the "guess/es"?


It's my turn.

Answer my question. Then I will consider your next question.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Mon 11 Mar, 2013 08:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
OK, that is fair Frank...please re-post it for me again because I have stepped out and I will answer it...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 12 Mar, 2013 06:30 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5276173)
OK, that is fair Frank...please re-post it for me again because I have stepped out and I will answer it...


Sure!

Earlier you wrote:


Quote:
If you do not embrace atheism or theism's, and refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction, and this is truly how you actually feel...What "guess" do you think that an atheist is being stubborn about?


Part of my reply was this question:

By the way…did I actually say “I refuse to make a blind guess on a coin flip in either direction”…or did I say “I prefer not make a blind guess on a coin flip?”

Fact is, I have made a coin flip for a frivolous answer to that question in this forum on several occasions. I actually got a kick out of doing it. Got the coin that I use right here…its name is, Mr. Coin. It’s a Sacagawea Dollar. But I truly prefer not to do it.



0 Replies
 
wilson19604
 
  1  
Wed 13 Mar, 2013 03:10 am
I thought "survival of the fittest" was meant for between species, not inside a species.
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 13 Mar, 2013 04:03 am
Certainly any individual who survives is fit by definition; you are correct that "survival of the fittest" applies to the success of one species over the other based on reproductive opportunity.
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  1  
Wed 13 Mar, 2013 05:47 am
@wilson19604,
Welcome Wilson Very Happy

The phrase "survival of the fittest" was never used by Darwin. It is tautalogical (circularly defined), as Setanta pointed out.

The concept Darwin advanced (before DNA was discovered) was "reproductive success".

That if traits can be inherited, then those organisms with traits that lead to more offspring who survive to reproduce, will be traits which will endure. [Over successive generations]
Traits that do not lead to more offspring, or lead to offspring who don't reproduce, will not endure. [Over successive generations]

Evolutionary biological understandings are much more intricate now.

[Spoiler alert: They do not support "evolutionary design" ]
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 13 Mar, 2013 05:53 am
@MattDavis,
Quote:
They do not support "evolutionary design"


Is that not tautological? "More intricate" does not mean comprehensive.
 

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