Atheists... Your life is pointless

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Actually Matt you have misunderstood my post because:

It is pre-surprise that a state of non-assumption takes place.

I allowed you to run with a state of surprise but if you check my post you can see it can mean a state immediately 'before' the surprise takes place. So, my original assertion stands.

The posts after this are a non sequitur in the light of this. My fault for just answering your questions and not pointing out my original intent (which nonetheless can be derived from my post explicitly).

So, the state of mind I'm referring to is pre-assumption and pre-surprise.

Spade Master I do believe in free will but there are more limits than we ben left to believe. While I don’t think we are preordained or bound to any particular actions our free will can be limited by other factors. It was Shakespeare that said, “There’s a divinity shapes our ends. Rough hew them how we will.“ You have to believe in a god to believe in predestination. If you believe in predestination you basically believe there is no free will, you are just a passenger along for the ride. An atheist cannot believe in predestination there is no higher force than free will in the world. An atheist can say the devil made me do it or it was god’s will. An atheist must take responsibility for his own actions.

In America in 2008 a preacher was very close to getting the Republican nomination for President. Had he been elected and he knew that god’s will is that the world ends in flames. Might he not believe that it was his responsibility to do god’s will and push the button to cause a nuclear holocaust? Most Christians think the world will end any day now, all the signs are in place. The imagination is a powerful tool but it is a double edged sword that can do as much harm as good. It is one thing to imagine a story of gods and demons but quite another to start believing it.

Further discoveries in neuroscience will limit what we refer to as “free will.” When child is raised in a religious cult does he have free will or is his brain shaped by the religious cult his parents belong to? His brain has been physically shaped by cult members. His permissible thoughts are the thoughts the cult allows. These thoughts strengthen certain neuro-connections while the pathways of opposing ideas atrophy. Is that free will?

Matt, most religions predict the end of the world. One of the most referenced parts of the bible is about the end of the world. Most Christians for the last 2,000 years have believed they are living in the end of days. The end of the world is something to look forward to where the faithful will be taken to heaven and not have to live through the last days. Where have we heard that before? The Heaven’s Gate cult committed suicide believing they would be taken up to the comet. The end of the world sounds like the ultimate goal of Christianity. Listening to preachers cleansing the world with fire would be a good idea.

For thousands of year the religious cults couldn’t destroy the world the tools were not in place. Now America nuclear arsenal can destroy the world not one time but 234 times and one man’s finger sets above the button and it was very nearly a far right preacher in 2008. The preacher was little more rational than the Heaven’s Gate’s cult leader.

Greed is greed whether it is connected to religious cults or not. Greed is a sickness where ever it is found.

In France during the French Revolution, that followed the American Revolution, the ungodly were killed and roasted on a spits like pigs and they were fed to their wives. Notice if the church had been involved the ungodly greedy would have been roasted alive as the church did in the past. You know what they say truth is stranger than fiction. I have never liked or read poetry.

Joseph Campbell spent is lifetime studying different types of religion they share many things in common, an explanation of how the world began and how it will end. What is the point of making up a story if it hasn’t a beginning and an end? Major religions that predict Armageddon, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, and Islam, that about covers doesn’t it. You can watch a video of the various versions of Armageddon on the History Channel web site.

My field study is not theology, if it was in all likelihood my brain would have been wired to believe this BS if I had spent a lifetime studying it. But in our world you can’t take two steps without falling over a cult member who is all too happy to recite the

I agree with you and think that this is at least somewhat true...

However, I do not think it completely impacts free individual will...Like it sounds like you are trying to say that scientists are trying to validate...

It is possible that people may need to be exposed to these "religious cults" in order to scientifically have the connections to understand a free individual will...since atheism claims to be no such beliefs...

And it is also very possible that a child being exposed to an irreligious atmosphere growing up can do just the same exact thing as these "religious cults" do...

So if this is how you feel, then the only solution would be to be born an agnostic and always remain one...

Does always remaining one mean that they freely choose to do so? Or does it mean that they have no free option? If they do have a free option, it can not be religious/irreligious doing anything...likely someone trying to prove something that is just subjective to this person, trying to validate an assertion that is also some type of belief that they have, that this scientist says beliefs render people incapable of actually making, while he is freely choosing to do it...

And it is by no means "religious cults" that are entirely responsible...

In which case it seems ridiculous to build the Vatican.

That is why many of us wonder why an atheist such as yourself would continue to build up the Vatican.

Thank you for your reasoned and much more civil response.
Thank you for explaining the French revolution reference.

I am familiar with some of Joseph Campbell's work and also James Frazer The Golden Bough. There is not much study of esoteric traditions I've noticed in either Campbell's or Frazer's works. If you are interested in those (esoteric religions) I might recommend A Brief History of Everything by Ken Wilber.

I noticed in a post of yours to someone else a discussion of neurology as it pertains to free will. If you are interested ,that is being discussed currently on another A2K thread here:
http://able2know.org/topic/208231-9#post-5269561
I would love to have your input.

I think that unexamined beliefs are sociologically dangerous.
There are more esoteric versions of Judaism and Christianity (more examined).
We discussed some of this on your thread, with regard to Christianity.

I think that is a valid post...I agree with you mate...I personally do not think that blind faith is necessarily the ways that God would even wish for his followers to embrace him...I think that if someone is not questioning their own faith constantly...And are not allowing themselves to rationalize why they actually have faith...And then are not coming to their own understandings of why faith is important...and why they chose to continue to have faith...Then there does not seem to be a point as to why even have faith...because then it appears that one would not even understand why they even have this faith...Or appreciate faith itself...Or try to understand why God chose this way to find him...Almost like an obligation that would not appear to be genuine...

I definitively think that God exists, and the way to find him is through faith...but I also think that he would also like his believers to fully understand why they actually chose to believe he is God...and all the other significant reasons why one would personally chose to embrace God...If one can not challenge their own faith, and become stronger...Or take the time to pick apart why they even chose to believe God is God...etc...

Then it really does not say much about ones faith...Or explain a real ample reason why they would chose to do it...Or show an understanding of the purpose of faith itself...or show an understanding of why God would specifically chose that way...

I'm sorry Igm, I really don't follow what you are trying to say. I've tried going back to your previous posts, but I can't piece that together with your new terminology.
Pre-assumption from my understanding would be pre-existence. Life requires an "assumption" of interactions, at the very minimum relationship is required. Even existence requires an "assumption" of relationship.

Did you take a course in self proctology by any chance?

It's because I look at things objectively. Plenty of like-minded atheists think that the Church is, on the whole, a good thing. I think you have got your own trivial interests, probably sexual, mixed up with the destiny of civilisation.

As you have offered nothing to put in its place I can't see any reason for anybody to take any notice of you. I don't have that problem.

I was addressing the idea that Christians think they are living in the end days. Neville Shute's On The Beach provides food for thought about a population conscious of living in the end days.

It's doubly depressing, not only are they living in the last days, they're also Australian.

I agree, Spade.

That certainly is the way the people who thought Zeus existed found him.

Same with Osiris, Odin...and the other gods.

I said I could only 'hint' at what I was pointing to... I guess we'll have to leave this attempt to see if you have a 'blind spot' .... there.

Reply #2: Cyracuz seems to be doing a fine job... I'll leave it to him for now

You see? Anything is possible if you simply aim your faith in that direction!

Igm you can understand how that statement may be perceived as ever so slightly condescending. Of course I may have cognitive blind spots, this is something of which I am aware. Do you think perhaps the same might be true of yourself?

Matt, my post was definitely not meant to be condescending... that's why I was careful to use the word 'if'..... My attempt to see 'if' you did, not only failed but made you misperceive my intentions... I'll apologize anyway.