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Atheists... Your life is pointless

Forums: Atheists, Spirituality And Religion, Krishnamurti, Izanami, Izanagi
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XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 03:25 am
@Zardoz,
So if you can't prove what you had said, is what you said a belief that requires embracing because it may be apart of an illusionary belief?

I don't follow morality just because of fear...I follow it because I think it is a good thing to do...Don't need fear or wrath for me to feel that it is a good thing...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 07:28 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Re: XXSpadeMasterXX (Post 5198667)
SpadeMaster it is indeed hard to prove the supernatural does not exist because we inhabit the natural world because it obeys none of the natural world’s laws. You cannot see it, hear it or touch it. No microscope is powerful enough. The most powerful telescope will never locate it, you can locate it only with your imagination. You breathe life into it.

Until we acknowledge that mankind gave morality to religion; religion did not give morality to mankind. In fact religion often twisted morality and sanctioned burning at the stake, torture, stoning and death for those who worked on the Sabbath.

If you are moral because you are afraid that you will burn in hell are you really moral? Or do you act moral only out of fear. It is like you go through life with a gun at your head. Mankind will never improve that way. The primary drive of an animal is to survive and the same is true of an organization. The primary drive of a religious cult is survival if that survival is counter to morality the morality will be dispensed with. They will use fear torture or even murder if allowable by custom.


Once again you are talking as though you KNOW something that is obvious...but you are not willing (I think for good reason) to state exactly what it is you know.

If there is a GOD...if there is life after death...if there are any of the things supposed by people who suppose these things...THEY ARE NATURAL...not supernatural.

But I suspect you will continue to avoid engaging in that discussion...and will continue to act as though you KNOW stuff that most likely you do not KNOW.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 09:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think I know why he does it...And I think he knows why he does it also...

But I think the reason why I think he does it, and the reason why you think he does it is different...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 02:06 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I think I know why he does it...And I think he knows why he does it also...

But I think the reason why I think he does it, and the reason why you think he does it is different...


Well, I certainly agree with you in that I also think he knows why he does it.

I think you think you know why he does it...but I rather suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it.

I am pretty sure my guesses about why he does it ARE different from your guesses.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 07:13 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Yes, you are correct...And so was I...That is exactly why I thought you thought he knows it...

And we are different because I think he knows that Gods, afterlife, morality are not such a bad thing, but it is very easy to blame a God when things do not go exactly how people plan or think things should happen...though if a God or afterlife do not exist...Then the reality is that nothing that comes with a God is at fault or to blame for anything...that is why it does not make sense that they are wrong or incorrect...whether they think they are or are not...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Wed 19 Dec, 2012 08:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I think you think you know why he does it...but I rather suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it.

Read this carefully...Doesn't what you said that neither of us suspect...= the same exact thing as you saying you think that I think I know why he does it?

In other words how does I suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it Not Equal I think you think you know why he does it? To you?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 06:39 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5200119)
Quote:
I think you think you know why he does it...but I rather suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it.

Read this carefully...Doesn't what you said that neither of us suspect...= the same exact thing as you saying you think that I think I know why he does it?

In other words how does I suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it I think you think you know why he does it? To you?


Read it over again carefully...and see if you get what I was saying.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 07:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think I could...But since you have asked me not to put what you have said into my own bizzare interpretations...I do not wish to speak on your behalf...So I would rather ask you, and hear how you would explain how it is different...

Do you think you could explain to me how you think those two are different?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 07:54 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
SM, You wrote:

Quote:
I think I know why he does it...And I think he knows why he does it also...

But I think the reason why I think he does it, and the reason why you think he does it is different...



My response was:

Quote:
Well, I certainly agree with you in that I also think he knows why he does it.

I think you think you know why he does it...but I rather suspect neither of us truly KNOWS why he does it.

I am pretty sure my guesses about why he does it ARE different from your guesses.


One of the points I am trying to make (and the thing I think you are questioning) here is that when you say “I think I KNOW why he does…”…you lose me. We part company.

There is no way I can conceive of you KNOWING why he does. At best, we (you and I, both) can only make guesses or estimates about why he does. For you to say you think you KNOW why he does…is saying something about you (what you think YOU KNOW) not about him.

Does this clear it up?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:09 am
@Frank Apisa,
Yes it does...But if he ultimately does know why he does it...And it is similar to what I think...Then it is not just about me...If he says he does not know, Or it is different....I would have no choice but to believe he is telling the truth...But he would still have to think, know, or believe what he thinks is true...which is what I am trying to say...If he does not say it...I don't see a reason to think he is correct just because he says it...That is why I say I think I know why...But he never has fully explained it...yet...
NikAnra21
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:12 am
@John Creasy,
Hello,

is this supposed to be a logical counter argument against atheists' point of view or rather just a vehement expression of one's personal judgement?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:13 am
@NikAnra21,
Not here anymore mate...We just go back and forth ourselves...
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:35 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The fact is you do not KNOW...so thinking you KNOW is illogical.

Lemme ask you this: Can you say with any certainty at all that I am not that person posting from another computer just to stimulate debate on the issue being discussed?

And if you cannot...THAT might be the reason rather than the one you THINK you KNOW.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Lemme ask you this: Can you say with any certainty at all that I am not that person posting from another computer just to stimulate debate on the issue being discussed?

Nope...

Quote:
And if you cannot...THAT might be the reason rather than the one you THINK you KNOW.

Nope, and here's why...

Don't you think, that you saying you suspect why you think he will not explain it, is because he does not know for certain...Is the same exact thing, as saying, I think I know why he does not say it, cause he does not know for certain, also, nor does anyone else? How are those 2 different? Just because you say "I think", does not make that a guess oppossed to saying I think I know or believe...It is the same exact thing, you just don't THINK that it is...

spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:48 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Lemme ask you this: Can you say with any certainty at all that I am not that person posting from another computer just to stimulate debate on the issue being discussed?


In contrast to you Spade I will answer "Yep". I am certain Frank has not being doing what he suggests he might do.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:51 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5200895)
Quote:
Lemme ask you this: Can you say with any certainty at all that I am not that person posting from another computer just to stimulate debate on the issue being discussed?

Nope...


Good answer.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And if you cannot...THAT might be the reason rather than the one you THINK you KNOW.

Nope, and here's why...

Don't you think, that you saying you suspect why you think he will not explain it, is because he does not know for certain...Is the same exact thing, as saying, I think I know why he does not say it, cause he does not know for certain, also, nor does anyone else? How are those 2 different? Just because you say "I think", does not make that a guess oppossed to saying I think I know or believe...It is the same exact thing, you just don't THINK that it is...


But if you do not know if I am Zardoz...and am just screwing around...how can you possibly think you KNOW why he is doing it?

I understand if you say you have a pretty good guess about why he is doing it, but to say you think you KNOW why, simply is not logical.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:53 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Re: XXSpadeMasterXX (Post 5200899)
Quote:
Lemme ask you this: Can you say with any certainty at all that I am not that person posting from another computer just to stimulate debate on the issue being discussed?


In contrast to you Spade I will answer "Yep". I am certain Frank has not being doing what he suggests he might do.


SPADE...I am interested in what you think about what Spendius just said. Do you think Spendius KNOWS WITH CERTAINTY that I am not doing what I suggested I might be doing?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
And I am trying to tell you they are the same exact things...You see it illogical because you do not think, know, or believe that they are...

If you say I think, I think I know (which is what I said BTW, not know) or believe it is the same exact thing...

You don't see it that way because you do not do believing...

That does not mean that others see it the same way as you do...

Nor should they if they do not...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:57 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5200909)
And I am trying to tell you they are the same exact things...You see it illogical because you do not think, know, or believe that they are...

If you say I think, I think I know (which is what I said BTW, not know) or believe it is the same exact thing...

You don't see it that way because you do not do believing...

That does not mean that others see it the same way as you do...

Nor should they if they do not...


You do not get it, SM...but I am not interesting in trying to get it across to you.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Thu 20 Dec, 2012 08:58 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think you already KNOW what I think about that without me saying it Wink

Or do you not KNOW? If you can't say you do...Then it is the same thing with me and Zardoz...
0 Replies
 
 

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