Atheists... Your life is pointless

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

How would a believer or God convince you to believe if you did not want to do do it? Then this god or people would be even more evil then atheists already claim they are...And even though doubters convert, it is always up to a person to see themselves for who they are...And want to be somthing else if they want it...If they don't or are content...Then no one can convince them otherwise unless this God choses to do it...

You're assuming I don't want to believe in a god. That's not the case. I want to find out the truth. If there's a god, good. I'll live accordingly. If there's not, good. I'll still live accordingly. How you plan to convince me of its existence is up to you. You've got free rein; it would be unfair of me to restrict your options.

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Then no one can convince them othersise unless this God choses to do it...

So, if there are unconverted people, that's God's will? But if we don't believe, we go to hell? So God just chooses some people to go to hell? He created them to populate hell, sounds like. That's not a very nice god.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

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And I certainly do not know if there is a GOD...if there are gods...or if there are no gods.

Do you?

For sure. I don't think there are any gods in the sense you mean. I have made that plain a few times.

I don't think there is a government either. Or the law. If I act out those unbeliefs they put me in jail. But suppose everybody acted out such unbeliefs . They can't put everybody in jail.

Hence there is no government as a scientific fact. What there is is a general consent to believe there is a government because it is a useful delusion when acted upon. The delusion is reinforced with elaborate ceremonials, stirring music, vestments, ritualistic chantings, usually incomprehensible, carrots and sticks, feast days, motorcades, indoctrination of the young, theological wrangling, hierarchies, and the normal panoplies of hypnotic suggestion.

The only reason you believe in government, if you do, rather than the Church, which is exactly the same, is because it doesn't interfere too much with sexual freedom and it is too early to say whether that is a wise policy or not. I'm inclined to think it will result in confusion and chaos once every fudge is followed out to its logical conclusion.

Sartre has an atheist intellectual kneeling at the altar rails praying to be given faith. Begging.

Your position, it seems to me, is conceited, self-indulgent, narcissistic and fatuous. And there's a $16 trillion deficit, which a government dependent on being popular has no idea how to prevent from becoming $20 trillion, or even $50 trillion, to prove it.

I don't think that a government which has allowed such conceited, self-indulgent, narcissistic and fatuous behaviour to take place on borrowed money can be reasonably called a government.

Fortunately for you Frank the time scale involved in these processes is such that your experiment with unbelief will not seriously affect you. So you're irresponsible as well. You're getting away with attacking institutions without offering any alternatives. Like a wrecking ball.

It's about time you grew up.

1 Reply

@FBM,

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So, if there are unconverted people, that's God's will? But if we don't believe, we go to hell? So God just chooses some people to go to hell? He created them to populate hell, sounds like. That's not a very nice god.

I did not say that mate...Just like you say I was assuming that you don't want to believe in a God...I think you are making assumptions about myself...

I don't believe that anyone will be lost forever...Will people be purged like Buddhism claims? I think it could be possible...I think everyone will be saved...Or cease to exist forever...

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

So what did you mean by, "Then no one can convince them othersise unless this God choses to do it..."?

If you don't believe in Hell, then is it safe to say that you don't believe everything the Bible teaches?

And I'm not aware of any sort of purging claims in Buddhism. Would you mind clarifying that bit?

I'm enjoying the conversation, by the way. I hope that my replies don't sound too abrupt or unfriendly. Smile

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@FBM,

The Bible doesn't really say much about Hell at all. Most of what we think of as Hell came much later. This is quite a nifty guide.

http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/hell.html

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@spendius,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5193290)

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And I certainly do not know if there is a GOD...if there are gods...or if there are no gods.

Do you?

For sure. I don't think there are any gods in the sense you mean. I have made that plain a few times.

Spendius, I asked if you KNOW if there is a GOD...if there are gods...or if there are no gods.

You responded, "For sure. I don't think there are any gods in the sense you mean. I have made that plain a few times. "

Is that a "yes" or a "no."

Were you trying to say you KNOW there are no gods (and failing miserably) or were y0u just typing words again?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The Bible doesn't really say much about Hell at all. Most of what we think of as Hell came much later. This is quite a nifty guide.

http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/hell.html

Thanks. But I'm not sure how relevant that is to the prevailing doctrine. The common conception is that if you're good you go to Heaven and if you're bad you go to Hell. I heard this preached from the pulpit a thousand times as I was growing up.

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@FBM,

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So what did you mean by, "Then no one can convince them othersise unless this God choses to do it..."?

If this God gives a revelation...It does not mean that I think that people will have to chose between going to Heaven or Hell once this revelation is revealed...Like some believe...

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If you don't believe in Hell, then is it safe to say that you don't believe everything the Bible teaches?

I am not sure of what I know about what God teaches or what the Bible is actually saying that people think they understand...I think The Bible is ultimatley a test to become more prudent...Not that anything this God would chose to ultimatley do...Can't be different that what is said in the Bible...itself...because that would limit this God...

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And I'm not aware of any sort of purging claims in Buddhism. Would you mind clarifying that bit?

I was sure that I thought that some Buddhists claim you can be purged before a rebirth? I watched a documentary about how Buddhists believe or think a soul may be subjected to hell, to cleanse the soul...Or being, and then it is reborn....You have never heard that before? I am saying that I may believe that some type of purging may take place while your soul or being finds its ultimate peace once and for all...I am not sure that people need to be reborn...And don't think everyone will...But I believe that some may...And when I say reborn...I don't mean it in the mundane way that you say you think or thought it happens...But I am talking about one life to the next...Or once one dies...And is not of this world anymore...As in any type of being...Or soul...they may be...

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I'm enjoying the conversation, by the way. I hope that my replies don't sound too abrupt or unfriendly

Not at all mate...I am enjoying the conversations as well...And like the way you think...I would not even be talking...If I did not like the conversations...Or did not find it interesting...Or worthy...

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@FBM,

I hope I do not sound abrupt or unfriendly either... Wink

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

If this God gives a revelation...It does not mean that I think that people will have to chose between going to Heaven or Hell once this revelation is revealed...Like some believe...

I'm not talking about people choosing Heaven or Hell. Only an idiot would choose Hell. I'm talking about people being judged good or evil by God. Does it happen or doesn't it?

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I am not sure of what I know about what God teaches or what the Bible is actually saying that people think they understand...I think The Bible is ultimatley a test to become more prudent...Not that anything this God would chose to ultimatley do...Can't be different that what is said in the Bible...itself...because that would limit this God...

Please forgive me if I'm guessing wrong, but it seems to me that English isn't your native language. I can't figure out what you're saying there. Did God author the Bible or was it the work of man? If God didn't author it, then why should we believe it? We have plentiful examples of deluded people who think God talks to them.

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I was sure that I thought that some Buddhists claim you can be purged before a rebirth? I watched a documentary about how Buddhists believe or think a soul may be subjected to hell, to cleanse the soul...Or being, and then it is reborn....You have never heard that before? I am saying that I may believe that some type of purging may take place while your soul or being finds its ultimate peace once and for all...I am not sure that people need to be reborn...And don't think everyone will...But I believe that some may...And when I say reborn...I don't mean it in the mundane way that you say you think or thought it happens...But I am talking about one life to the next...Or once one dies...And is not of this world anymore...As in any type of being...Or soul...they may be...

Sorry, but one of the very essential teachings of Buddhism is anatta, no soul has ever been found. Buddhist philosophy starts off with the observation that no soul has ever been observed. Whatever documentary you saw seems to have been bullshit.

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Not at all mate...I am enjoying the conversations as well...And like the way you think...I would not even be talking...If I did not like the conversations...Or did not find it interesting...Or worthy...

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@FBM,

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I'm not talking about people choosing Heaven or Hell. Only an idiot would choose Hell. I'm talking about people being judged good or evil by God. Does it happen or doesn't it?

It may...But I don't believe the end result is Heaven or Hell...And that is it...I am sorry, but I disagree with the way you see it...I think if it does happen that way...Then people see God in his revelation and then chose to be with him or not by their actions...And God has no judging he has to do, but they condemn themselves if they chose to reject him after his revelation....I would not say that is judgment...But people being so condenmed by their wickedness...They do not want to be around this God...Because they can just feel how wrong they are...And can't take this feeling...

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I can't figure out what you're saying there. Did God author the Bible or was it the work of man? If God didn't author it, then why should we believe it? We have plentiful examples of deluded people who think God talks to them.

I apologize....It was the work of man with God leading the way...I don't think that everything that God can do is fully explained in it...And I don't believe that everything that will happen is explained in just the Bible...

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Sorry, but one of the very essential teachings of Buddhism is anatta, no soul has ever been found. Buddhist philosophy starts off with the observation that no soul has ever been observed. Whatever documentary you saw seems to have been bullshit.

Well I do respect your opinions, and I do not think I understand Buddhism better than you do...But what they had said, seemed to make sense...In some ways...And it incorperated that a soul (or whatever they called an essence) is purged for cleansing, and is reborn in a state more suitible for less anger...Or things that were root causes of sufferings...in the previous lifetime...

I am saying that I think this could be true, but would not have to happen more than once...If it did...But it also could...

I am probably saying it incorrectly...But that was sorta the gist of it...I am sorry if I confused you with what they said...And what I believe...I lumped them together...

1 Reply

@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Thanks. But I'm not sure how relevant that is to the prevailing doctrine.

You were asking about what the Bible says, not what the prevailing doctrine is.

I suspect the prevailing doctrine changes depending on where you are.

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@Frank Apisa,

I know there are no gods in the sense you are meaning the term. Do you ever finish wringing the dish cloth out?

If you look into the speed of the solar system around the Milky Way and the speed of the earth around the sun and the speed of rotation of the earth's surface round its axis you will discover that you don't know the direction your sliced drives are going in. But you know you do don't you because you judge everything relative to yourself.

And yourself is a tube with a hole at each end with reproductive organs which has evolved deterministically and only looks like a sophisticated citizen to the untrained eye and an inordinate capacity for flattering self-delusion.

Have you put you Christmas trimmings up and sent your cards out to commemorate the birth of our Lord and Saviour?

1 Reply

@spendius,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5193581)
I know there are no gods in the sense you are meaning the term. Do you ever finish wringing the dish cloth out?

Really! I am constantly castigated for refusing to describe what I mean when I talk about GOD or gods...but you KNOW what I mean when I use the words...and you KNOW the kinds of gods I mean do not exist.

C'mon, Spendius. Let's get real in this conversation.

Do you KNOW if gods exist or not?

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If you look into the speed of the solar system around the Milky Way and the speed of the earth around the sun and the speed of rotation of the earth's surface round its axis you will discover that you don't know the direction your sliced drives are going in. But you know you do don't you because you judge everything relative to yourself.

Okay...I am sure that had meaning for you. For me it just indicated that you are unable to reasonably deal with what is being discussed.

Do you KNOW if gods exist or not?

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And yourself is a tube with a hole at each end with reproductive organs which has evolved deterministically and only looks like a sophisticated citizen to the untrained eye and an inordinate capacity for flattering self-delusion.

Okay...I am sure that had meaning for you. For me it just indicated that you are unable to reasonably deal with what is being discussed.

Do you KNOW if gods exist or not?

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Have you put you Christmas trimmings up and sent your cards out to commemorate the birth of our Lord and Saviour?

Most of our Christmas decorations are now in place...and we are awaiting how our new kitten will deal with them. So far (most only went up last night)...so good. The tree (not yet decorated) is up in the den...and so far, Cabot (the kitten) has shown surprisingly little interest in it. He is a rascal, though, and I am sure when there are ornaments in place, his interest will perk up.

Here's a picture of him.

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@Frank Apisa,

Oh, so it's turned into one of those threads has it.

Well this is my cat Vic, he's a complete bastard.

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@Frank Apisa,

I think you're a masochist Frank. I just told you that I know no gods exist. Just like I know I don't know what direction I'm traveling in if I look at things the way you need to do to envisage this god concept of yours.

You're talking about the god that says not to pull your willie or debauch any young ladies before signing on the dotted line and all that other stuff which gets more and more distasteful the more it is gone into. Which doesn't exist. It's a mass delusion not getting by 'ol Frank's feet which has guided us to where we are. Some might say that such a god has led us up the garden path but the jingling of the Xmas cash tills tells us that not very many think that. Their numbers are growing though.

Whether they are right or the happy well-stuffed shoppers are right only Destiny can say. But even if it is a Big Mistake it was a valiant effort to escape the 2 million years of matriarchy and the wonderful jumbly-jubblies afforded to mankind in that era one month of which would soon have you on your knees praying.

You're not talking about a New Jersey discussion forum god. You are talking about a momentous event in human history with no parallel. Something truly extraordinary.

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@izzythepush,

Great picture...and I suspect you love him like Nancy and I love Cabot.

Killers have been so much fun...I cannot thank you enough for the introduction to them. Still on "easy"...but I am solving more easily. Will move up to moderate soon.

Thanks again,

f.

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@spendius,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5193784)
I think you're a masochist Frank. I just told you that I know no gods exist. Just like I know I don't know what direction I'm traveling in if I look at things the way you need to do to envisage this god concept of yours.

You're talking about the god that says not to pull your willie or debauch any young ladies before signing on the dotted line and all that other stuff which gets more and more distasteful the more it is gone into. Which doesn't exist. It's a mass delusion not getting by 'ol Frank's feet which has guided us to where we are. Some might say that such a god has led us up the garden path but the jingling of the Xmas cash tills tells us that not very many think that. Their numbers are growing though.

Whether they are right or the happy well-stuffed shoppers are right only Destiny can say. But even if it is a Big Mistake it was a valiant effort to escape the 2 million years of matriarchy and the wonderful jumbly-jubblies afforded to mankind in that era one month of which would soon have you on your knees praying.

You're not talking about a New Jersey discussion forum god. You are talking about a momentous event in human history with no parallel. Something truly extraordinary.

Wow!

So is that a "yes" or a "no?"

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@Frank Apisa,

That's not a kitten--it's a cat.

We have a kitten. He's called Meep. We have trained him to fetch like a dog does with a stick. He has a little fluffy toy mouse. Well- it's ours really I suppose. We hold this thing out, it's a bit bedraggled now though, and tell him to "sit there". Which he does. Then we throw the mouse across the room and he darts after it like greased lightning, grabs it in his teeth whilst growling, brings it back, drops it near our feet and goes back to his sitting spot for another go. I've never heard of a kitten doing that before. He'll pack it in as soon as he becomes a cat.

We are starting to think he might be training us.

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@Frank Apisa,

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And yourself is a tube with a hole at each end with reproductive organs which has evolved deterministically and only looks like a sophisticated citizen to the untrained eye and an inordinate capacity for flattering self-delusion.

That has meaning for even half-baked scientific sensibilities.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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