Atheists... Your life is pointless

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I do not believe that if they believe in God, they try to justify how doing evil things are good...but rather they know they were wrong, and feel remorseful.

Well sure I can agree with this but sometimes good people do things that are bad without even knowing it.

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they try to justify how doing evil things are good...but rather they know they were wrong, and feel remorseful..

Sure I can see this to be true at times.

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I need to get a spell checker...my new computer is much smaller, and I can't see the mistakes as easily...As I used to be able too

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@reasoning logic,

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Well sure I can agree with this but sometimes good people do things that are bad without even knowing it.

If they don't know mate...It can't really be evil to me...I don't think anyone can be blamed or be expected to do something different if they do not even realize that what they are doing, have done...is wrong...

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Sure I can see this to be true at times.

I would have to say a believer tries to see this all the time...Where as a Satanist does not really try at all

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@spendius,

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Speak for yourself Spade. Thinking what we are doing is a very dangerous occupation. And it's ******* partonising as well.

Or why not let Frank answer the question himself?

@Frank Apisa...

Did you feel like I was patronising you when I had said that to you?

If you do, I apologize Frank...

@Spendius

Though I am almost certain why you have brought that up....And it does not include anything to do with protecting Frank... 2 Cents

Or I am incapable of understanding why you would think that telling us all and Frank that he lost all connection to reality is not patronising?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Some Satanists give it a fair effort Spade.

"Look out your window, baby, there's a scene you'd like to catch
The band is playing "Dixie", a man got his hand outstretched
Could be the FÃ…hrer (Fuhrer)
Could be the local priest
You know sometimes Satan, you know he comes as a man of peace.

He got a sweet gift of gab, he got a harmonious tongue
He knows every song of love that ever has been sung
Good intentions can be evil
Both hands can be full of grease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, first he's in the background, and then he's in the front
Both eyes are looking like they're on a rabbit hunt
Nobody can see through him
No, not even the Chief of Police
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he catch you when you're hoping for a glimpse of the sun
Catch you when your troubles feel like they weigh a ton
He could be standing next to you
The person that you'd notice least
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, he can be fascinating, he can be dull
He can ride down Niagara Falls in the barrels of your skull
I can smell something cooking
I can tell there's going to be a feast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

He's a great humanitarian, he's great philanthropist
He knows just where to touch you honey, and how you like to be kissed
He'll put both his arms around you
You can feel the tender touch of the beast
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

Well, the howling wolf will howl tonight, the king snake will crawl
Trees that've stood for a thousand years suddenly will fall
Wanna get married ? Do it now
Tomorrow all activity will cease
You know that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.
Somewhere Mama's weeping for her blue-eyed boy
She's holding them little white shoes and that little broken toy
And he's following a star
The same one them three men followed from the East
I hear that sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace."

Bob Dylan.. Man of Peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgX2X6vi6Xo

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

You said "a lot of people" Spade, not me.

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Or why not let Frank answer the question himself?

Because you didn't say that Frank was learning a lot about Frank. You said "a lot of people".

I wasn't patronising anybody. I simply stated a fact.

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I am going to leave for tonight guys...Not fealing well...Need sleep...Have a great night, or morning, afternoon etc... all

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@spendius,

You are correct mate...

But I want to ask Frank about others, then ask him about himself...

Baby steps Spendi, there is no rush here...

It comes on the terms of who is potentially leaning not the one who is revealing...

I would like to know that the person understands the first or there is no point in going to the second....

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@spendius,

I want to say one more thing before I go...

Spendi, I know what you are doing with the Sophistry...And you are not helping anyone...but just making it harder...

Do you think you understand, why you "believe" that Frank is out of touch with reality? Since you use Sophistry? Or not? And how he is not out of touch, at all? But it is just you who thinks this?

Do you honestly think that what you do helps others understand things clearly? Or just confuses people? Why do you think that what you do helps anyone understand anything clearly, at all?

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@spendius,

Spendius, nice poem and I suspect that was very much how many felt in the dark ages as the green wood was torched under them and they slowly burned to death by their fellow religious cult members.

“You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.”

Your imagination is a changeling it can be man of peace than a monster than back to a man peace, the limits of imagination are endless.

One night in the southern United States an angry group of whites were busy lynching a black man for a crime he didn’t commit. When his very pregnant wife came upon the lynch mob she protested the lynching. For protesting her husband lynching she was strung along side of him. A nice Christian white man then slit her belly open with his knife and the baby spilled out on the ground. He then took his heel and ground the baby’s head into the dirt. You can bet all these good Christians were in church Sunday morning.

You know sometimes Satan comes as a man peace.”

In the first part of the last century in Chicago a lynch mob gathered to lynch a black man. Not satisfied just lynching him the mob poured gasoline on the man and set him on fire. While his charred corpse was still hanging they cut his fingers off and gave them to their children as souvenirs.

“You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.”

In the old south the bible was frequently used to justify slavery because slaves were common and an accepted in the bible. All that grew from the ignorance of the bible prolonged and justified slavery for years in America and it was responsible for the ignorance and violence that followed.

“You know sometimes Satan comes as a man of peace.

A few years ago a gay man was crucified on a fence because of the ignorance spread by good Christians.

“You know sometimes Satan comes as a “god” of peace.

We know from the dark ages Religious cults think and sometimes act like lynch mobs.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

So you took leaps once in your life? What would you call it when you did not do these willful delusions anymore?...And decided to embrace evidence or credible evidence? Would you say that this too required a leap to know that you wanted to find credible evidence over a supernatural phenomena? And do these things you accept as credible evidence alos require you to take a leap in accepting it is correct when you think logically that it is? Or no?

Up to a point, you're probably right. I think I did have blind faith in science and reasoning for a long time. But that's not the case now. I ran across Hume's Problem of Induction and since it's solid inference, not speculation, I have no choice but to consider it reliable until someone solves it. No one has yet, but I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

I also ran across Pyrrhonism, which I linked to earlier, and tested it out. It doesn't make any truth claims at all. It's just advice about an attitude towards conflicting claims. It's up to you to experiment with it and reach your own conclusions.

Nor does Pyrrhonism reject sensory data, as some have erroneously claimed. First-person experience seems to be all we have, being trapped in the epistemological cage and all, so we have no choice to accept immediate experience if we're going to be active in the world. Some limited and necessary inference is also possible. The examples Sextus Empiricus gave were 'where there's smoke, there's usually fire,' and 'where there is a scar, there was once a wound.' Like that. The sorts of things that make self-preservation possible. The goal of Pyrrhonism wasn't/isn't correct knowledge at all, but a state of calm, called ataraxia. The only way to know whether or not it works for you is to try it out for yourself. But one should be careful not to over-reach and make a statement along the lines that 'Since it worked for me, it will work for anybody' or the opposite 'It didn't work for me, so it just doesn't work for anybody.' Neither of those can be known by direct experience.

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It is about suspending judgement on questions for which there is no evidence when I claim you a nice person?

Do you know for sure that I'm not a dickhead most of the time, and am trying to make an exception here? Maybe I beat my wife (I'm not married) or kick my dog (Don't have a dog). Wink

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We all know that you are a person, but it is a belief, if you catch me...

Depends on what you mean by "person." I was a Buddhist for a while, and the concept of anatta seems pretty convincing. Smile

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And nice is all subjective which requires a leap of acceptance of what "nice" to me is..."truth", or "evidence" even mean...

Anyway, it's nice of you to say that I'm nice. Laughing

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@Zardoz,

These people did these malicious acts because they were fallowing this man of peace...And they are probably suffering for their sins for listening to this man of peace...rather than the Prince of peace himself...Because I do not remember reading in the Bible where Jesus has said it is acceptable to do these acts...Even if these people believe they were warriors for god...They were not...

And even with the Slavery anology...Jesus or God said to take care of your slave and provide for them...They could breed with your family if you were not able to...Does that sound likes slaves that are beaten, or killed because of color? Like the Civil rights slaves were....

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@FBM,

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Do you know for sure that I'm not a dickhead most of the time, and am trying to make an exception here? Maybe I beat my wife (I'm not married) or kick my dog (Don't have a dog).

Good question do you believe that you honestly are? Does anyone in the world, whether an evil person or not...Do they believe they are not nice? If they knew they were a dickhead would they not want to change?

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Depends on what you mean by "person." I was a Buddhist for a while, and the concept of anatta seems pretty convincing

So you are not anymore? Do you consider yourself a person now? And when you were a Buddhist or any person of any faith for that matter...Do they not know they are a person now? Regardless of what they believe they may be?

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Anyway, it's nice of you to say that I'm nice.

How do you know I am not a dickhead? 2 Cents

If you feel it is nice of me to say you are nice...Then you must have a belief or leap of faith that your subjective nice is equal to my subjective nice in some sort of way...Without knowing if this is true or not...Or being able to prove it is so.... Idea

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I don't mean to be un-nice about it, but I didn't say 'you are nice,' I said it was nice of you to say that I'm nice. Laughing

Among the Buddhist goals is to be free of faith and to see for oneself, so it's not quite right to imply that all Buddhist are people of faith. Some are, some aren't. I never was, but while I was a monk, I was surrounded by monks and laypeople who were.

If you investigate the concept of anatta, you'll see that it doesn't make any sense to say that it's a belief, either. It's a concept that points to an observable phenomenon; if you look, you might see it.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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They could breed with your family if you were not able to...Does that sound likes slaves that are beaten, or killed because of color?

This sounds rather interesting. Does it say some where in the bible that a man of God allowed his male slave to breed with the man of God wife so that they could have a family?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I do not remember reading in the Bible where Jesus has said it is acceptable to do these acts.

Luke 19:27

But those my enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Spendi, I know what you are doing with the Sophistry...And you are not helping anyone...but just making it harder...

That's 3 assertions Spade. You need to define sophistry.

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Do you think you understand, why you "believe" that Frank is out of touch with reality?

Because he marks his own exam papers.

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But it is just you who thinks this?

That's possible.

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Do you honestly think that what you do helps others understand things clearly?

I can't say. It's part of what I try to do.

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@FBM,

I think Hume is a bit out of date FB.

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@spendius,

Have you solved the Problem of Induction, then? I'm getting excited...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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So you would like to know? But don't think you will? Why are you willing to acknowledge that it probably will not happen if you do not have a belief that it will? Do you have opinions, compositions, guesstimates, as to why it may not? If you do please explain to me what you think they may be?

Not sure what you are getting at here, SM. But my response is clear and I will stand with it. "I would love to know the answers to all questions right now...including (perhaps, especially) the two you mentioned. I am willing to acknowledge that I probably will not know the answers to most questions...and I am not particularly bothered by that being the case."

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Do you understand if I had said, If you knew tomorrow that no after life exists with certainty...Would it bother you?

It would not bother me in the slightest.

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If the reality is that when I die, I cease to exist "forever"...is fine with me. If the reality is that when I die, I will live on in another form...is fine with me also. I am not sure why you think my knowing it now impacts on these things.

So that is reality to you? But you think it can't be changed? What are your opinions, compostions, or guestimates...As to why you have no impact on whether or not you can alter reality after this life?

Once again, not sure what you are trying for here, SM, but I have re-read my response and it seems very clear. I will stick with it: If the reality is that when I die, I cease to exist "forever"...is fine with me. "If the reality is that when I die, I will live on in another form...is fine with me also. I am not sure why you think my knowing it now impacts on these things."

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Really?! Is this something you know for sure, SM...or is this just a guess you are making?

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It was actually me trying to find the correct words to realate to how I think you would understand what I wanted to know about you...

It did not really have anything to do with what I think or believe...myself...

If you would like me too...I will try to reword what I was trying to learn about you, in a way I think you may understand me more clearly?

What you wrote earlier, SM, was "And understand that no one will ever know this answer?"

That is a very specific assertion...and does have lots to do with what you think or "believe."

So I ask again: Do you KNOW that no one will ever know this answer...or is that just a guess?

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I think a lot of people are learning new things about you...As do I...But I am not sure, if you think that this is true? Do you think they may be? Or are you unsure?

I have no idea if people are finding out anything new about me. Almost everything I've said here, I've said other times in A2K. Some might say that I have said these things too often in the past.

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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