92
   

Atheists... Your life is pointless

 
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:09 am
@FBM,
Do you have direct experience of the opposite of what the book says, or what you have experienced yourself, ever? If you have, what would you call that?

It is neither about belief or proof...But ignorance...If I had said you are a very nice person to talk too...I would not need a belief or proof...WinkWinkVery Happy
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
This is all I need to talk about...Because you understood me this time...

And it does not matter about the whole guess about a guess etc...

Quote:
In the specific question of the existence or non-existence of a GOD…I do not know if a God exists; I do not know if no gods exist; and I simply do not want to make a meaningless, blind guess in either direction.

Are you content knowing you will pass one day, and want to know if a God does exist? Or are you content knowing you will pass one day, and be uncertain about the existence of a God forever? Or do you not know this as well?

Quote:
In the specific question of the existence or non-existence of an “afterlife”…I do not know if there is an “afterlife”; I do not know if there is no “afterlife”; and I simply do not want to make a meaningless, blind guess in either direction.

Would you like to know the answer to that question one day? Or are you content with never knowing the answer to that question forever?
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:19 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
The truth Spade is recognisable sensually. Take the distinct musical differences there are between cultures. Even sometimes between regions or even districts.

So also in the plastic arts and clothing. Poetic styles as well.

Mailer, following Aquinas, said that if it feels good it is good. That the good is something we are drawn to and the bad repels us.

And it's different for everybody. Unfortunately, what feels good to some people is bad for society. And then steps have to be taken to inhibit that sort of good. Under certain circumstances severe steps. The age old problem of the tension between the individual and society.

How bads are identified is a scientific operation as is what to do about them under the operant conditioning exigencies. Which are too complex for the man in the street.

The bads, like the goods, are hierarchical. There are really bad bads, ordinary bads and not so bads. With appropriate inhibiting sanctions.

There might be good bads even. Creativity's power source some claim.

And goods, when too good, can become bads. Like with the Cathars.

And all in a flux combining the industrial arts and the size of the population as with a chemical reaction. The industrial arts and the resources to which they are applied are redundant without the population.

Imagine a cauldron in which the industrial arts are stagnant. The population is the fire. Getting hotter and hotter as the bellows are pumped faster and faster until there is nothing left but a bit of inorganic dust.

Atheists on here are only able to identify bads using the Christian reference book. Some, like de Sade and Freud and Reich and Marx and Skinner, can identify bads in another way for which they have a certain scientific plausibility which is not easily dismissed unless it is charged with naivete.

Whether our capacity to be drawn to some things and repelled by others is instinctive or learned is a subject on which much hot air has been expended.

Those aspects of a culture which alien cultures readily adopt when there is no pressing need to, as there is with technology, which is learned: rock and roll, lingerie, for example, burgers, (dare I say smoking) provide evidence of an instinctive attraction.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:20 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

Do you have direct experience of the opposite of what the book says, or what you have experienced yourself, ever? If you have, what would you call that?

It is neither about belief or proof...But ignorance...If I had said you are a very nice person to talk too...I would not need a belief or proof...WinkWinkVery Happy


Yes, I have direct experience of the opposite of what the books say; I used to believe earnestly in supernatural phenomena for which there was no credible evidence. I would call that willful delusion, these days.

To your second point, you've never talked to me, so any knowledge statement you make about the question of whether or not I'm a nice person to talk to would be a belief, it seems. Not sure how it could be knowledge, and the whole question of proof would take us back to Hume's problem with inference. Pyrrhonism doesn't depend on inference, because it's not about claiming knowledge at all; it's about suspending judgement on questions for which there is insufficient evidence.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:31 am
@spendius,
Thanks Spendi...But I know what I am doing, and I got it... Wink Wink

I want to hear what Frank has to say...And only Frank right now about those questions...I think I know how you would answer those questions already...
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:33 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I couldn't be arsed Spade. It's a 30s 78 record that's been played too often.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:41 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5185460)
This is all I need to talk about...Because you understood me this time...

And it does not matter about the whole guess about a guess etc...

Quote:
Quote:
In the specific question of the existence or non-existence of a GOD…I do not know if a God exists; I do not know if no gods exist; and I simply do not want to make a meaningless, blind guess in either direction.


Are you content knowing you will pass one day, and want to know if a God does exist? Or are you content knowing you will pass one day, and be uncertain about the existence of a God forever? Or do you not know this as well?


I am "content" knowing I will die some day. If there is a GOD...there is a GOD; if there isn't...there isn't.

(If there is a GOD...I certainly hope it is not anything like the god described in the Bible. That god disgusts me.)


Quote:
Quote:
In the specific question of the existence or non-existence of an “afterlife”…I do not know if there is an “afterlife”; I do not know if there is no “afterlife”; and I simply do not want to make a meaningless, blind guess in either direction.

Would you like to know the answer to that question one day? Or are you content with never knowing the answer to that question forever?


Whatever. If there is a GOD and I find out...fine. If there is a GOD and I never find out...fine. If there are no gods...fine.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:41 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Yes, I have direct experience of the opposite of what the books say; I used to believe earnestly in supernatural phenomena for which there was no credible evidence. I would call that willful delusion, these days.

So you took leaps once in your life? What would you call it when you did not do these willful delusions anymore?...And decided to embrace evidence or credible evidence? Would you say that this too required a leap to know that you wanted to find credible evidence over a supernatural phenomena? And do these things you accept as credible evidence alos require you to take a leap in accepting it is correct when you think logically that it is? Or no?

Quote:
because it's not about claiming knowledge at all; it's about suspending judgement on questions for which there is insufficient evidence.

It is about suspending judgement on questions for which there is no evidence when I claim you a nice person?

We all know that you are a person, but it is a belief, if you catch me...

And nice is all subjective which requires a leap of acceptance of what "nice" to me is..."truth", or "evidence" even mean...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 09:50 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think I already have an opinion...But I will break it down even smaller once more, if you are interested in answering...And if you do not mind I will go one smaller after this...If I am bothering you it is cool...we can drop it...Just let me know how you feel...

If you had an option as to whether or not you could know for sure if a God and afterlife exists right now, would you like to know the answers?

Or right now, are you perfectly content knowing if the option is never presented to you, you will cease to exist forever? And understand that no one will ever know this answer?

Thanks Frank!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 10:38 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I think I already have an opinion...But I will break it down even smaller once more, if you are interested in answering...And if you do not mind I will go one smaller after this...If I am bothering you it is cool...we can drop it...Just let me know how you feel...


Ask whatever you want. I am not bothered in the least.

Quote:
If you had an option as to whether or not you could know for sure if a God and afterlife exists right now, would you like to know the answers?


I would love to know the answers to all questions right now...including (perhaps, especially) the two you mentioned. I am willing to acknowledge that I probably will not know the answers to most questions...and I am not particularly bothered by that being the case.

Quote:
Or right now, are you perfectly content knowing if the option is never presented to you, you will cease to exist forever?


Not sure of your logic here, SM...or maybe I am not understanding what you mean when you say, "the option is never presented to (me)."

If there is a GOD...or if there are gods...then there is a GOD or there are gods. My knowing or not knowing doesn't seem to impact on that.

If the reality is that when I die, I cease to exist "forever"...is fine with me. If the reality is that when I die, I will live on in another form...is fine with me also. I am not sure why you think my knowing it now impacts on these things.


Quote:
And understand that no one will ever know this answer?


Really?! Is this something you know for sure, SM...or is this just a guess you are making?

Quote:
Thanks Frank


Thank you, SM.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 10:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

Ask whatever you want. I am not bothered in the least.


Someone told me that both Mormons and some agnostics wear magic underwear " Is this true?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 10:59 am
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Someone told me that both Mormons and some agnostics wear magic underwear " Is this true?


Well, I can only guess...but my guess would be that it is not true that someone told you that both Mormons and some agnostics wear magic underwear.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 11:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
Are you psychic?
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 12:25 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
No offense mate...As it is your own opinion...And you are my friend...And I never would not be yours as we have said before...But that was not really necessary...It really was not...And it is not even because I can defend that, cause I can't...As it has happened.


Thank you Ryan. I am sorry for bringing up the reality of the past.


Quote:
do you honestly even believe that this is an acurate statement yourself? Or believe that if a God exists people who do these things, or steer planes into buildings or burn people at the foot of a cross...Actually symbolize any potential God(s)?


Not any kind of God I would worship but the truth is Ryan that I do think that some of those people actually believed that they were doing the will of God. Why do I say this because I hear things coming from my own mother that I think are unjustifiable not that she is as extreme as some of the ones you mentioned.

Quote:
You do realize that these people who do these things are just Satanists, who claim to know a God...right? I hope so...


I do not think that my mother is a Satanists but rather someone who is like the rest of us that gets reality wrong at times.

Quote:
I have to be honest here...That did just sound like a dig mate...Cause it does not even sound like you believe this...although you said it..


I was being somewhat sarcastic but I was not meaning any harm
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 01:19 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
So you took leaps once in your life? What would you call it when you did not do these willful delusions anymore?...And decided to embrace evidence or credible evidence? Would you say that this too required a leap to know that you wanted to find credible evidence over a supernatural phenomena?


This reminds me of a Canadian philosopher who once stated that I would be like a Messiah if people were able to embrace me. I think he says it at the end of this video.

I do not agree with all that he says but I think that he may be onto some truth. Wink

0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 05:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,

Quote:
I would love to know the answers to all questions right now...including (perhaps, especially) the two you mentioned. I am willing to acknowledge that I probably will not know the answers to most questions...and I am not particularly bothered by that being the case.

So you would like to know? But don't think you will? Why are you willing to acknowledge that it probably will not happen if you do not have a belief that it will? Do you have opinions, compositions, guesstimates, as to why it may not? If you do please explain to me what you think they may be?

Quote:
Not sure of your logic here, SM...or maybe I am not understanding what you mean when you say, "the option is never presented to (me)."

I was trying to find a way you may relate to what I was asking you...Based upon the way I think you would understand...If you would like me too, I will try to reword it?

Do you understand if I had said, If you knew tomorrow that no after life exists with certainty...Would it bother you?

Quote:
If the reality is that when I die, I cease to exist "forever"...is fine with me. If the reality is that when I die, I will live on in another form...is fine with me also. I am not sure why you think my knowing it now impacts on these things.

So that is reality to you? But you think it can't be changed? What are your opinions, compostions, or guestimates...As to why you have no impact on whether or not you can alter reality after this life?

Quote:
Really?! Is this something you know for sure, SM...or is this just a guess you are making?

It was actually me trying to find the correct words to realate to how I think you would understand what I wanted to know about you...

It did not really have anything to do with what I think or believe...myself...

If you would like me too...I will try to reword what I was trying to learn about you, in a way I think you may understand me more clearly?

Quote:
Thank you, SM.

Anytime Frank! And I am enjoying these conversations...I hope you are also..

I think a lot of people are learning new things about you...As do I...But I am not sure, if you think that this is true? Do you think they may be? Or are you unsure?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 05:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Thank you Ryan. I am sorry for bringing up the reality of the past.

No worries mate...It did not even upset me, cause like I had said...I did not believe that you meant it to hurt people...And I am very guilty of saying things that are uncalled for myself, many times on here...But I am just trying to make you aware of how that may hurt others...Just like you have shown me that I act like Jesus at times, but a wolf in sheeps clothing at other times...And I think you are correct...And I am just telling you this because I think 2 good friends should try to point these things out to one another...So we can continue to learn...

Quote:
Not any kind of God I would worship but the truth is Ryan that I do think that some of those people actually believed that they were doing the will of God. Why do I say this because I hear things coming from my own mother that I think are unjustifiable not that she is as extreme as some of the ones you mentioned.

I disagree with you, but I think I understand what you are saying...I think people want to be holy, but lose focus, and act like the devil at times...I do not believe that if they believe in God, they try to justify how doing evil things are good...but rather they know they were wrong, and feel remorseful...The thing that makes people Satanists to me, is because they chose to do evil, and think that evil is good...And if believers think this way...Even if they say they believe in God...I think they are mistaken, or do not fully understand the concept of God and the Devil...

Quote:
I do not think that my mother is a Satanists but rather someone who is like the rest of us that gets reality wrong at times.

There is no way for me to know if this is true or not...But as your friend I would have to say I trust you are telling me the truth...I don't think that most people who say or do really adbominable things from time to time are Satanists myself...But believers who chose to listen to the Devil at times, but then realize this...And make a effort to repent of doing the evil things...I think a Satanists...Does not have regards concerning repentance itself...Or justify evil as a holy thing almost all the time, or the opposite of what I believer does...

Quote:
I was being somewhat sarcastic but I was not meaning any harm

I knew you were not mate...But I am not here to judge you anyways mate...I fall way too short myself...Just pointing out how I think it could have been worded different to not make it sound as though it was harmful...

Just like I hope I can trust you as a friend, to point out to me, when you think I have done a similiar thing?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 05:42 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I think a lot of people are learning new things about you.


I know I have, I thought for sure that he might have went along withe the magic underwear idea but he proved me wrong. Sad
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 05:43 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
I think a lot of people are learning new things about you.


Speak for yourself Spade. Thinking what we are doing is a very dangerous occupation. And it's ******* partonising as well.
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 4 Dec, 2012 05:45 pm
@spendius,
Frank lost all connection to reality in the contemplation of his own excellence.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Atheism - Discussion by littlek
American Atheists Barred from holding Office - Discussion by edgarblythe
Richard Dawkins doesn't exist! - Question by Jay2know
The New State Religion: Atheism - Question by Expert2
Is Atheism the New Age Religion? - Question by Expert2
Critical thinking on the existence of God - Discussion by Susmariosep
Are evolution and the big bang true? - Discussion by Johnjohnjohn
To the people .. - Question by Johnjohnjohn
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 01/10/2025 at 06:53:01