Atheists... Your life is pointless

You could've just said "No."

I very much doubt it. I think most institutions had given up such things by that stage. Apart from rendition processes of course. And in non-Christian countries where I gather things go on much as usual.

Nobody can answer for things that happened in the long gone past. We can't even be sure that what you dwelt upon so lovingly actually took place and is not anti-Christian propaganda made up by the enemies of the Church.

Whatever--public torture was standard practice everywhere for enemies of the state or even of individual war lords, for criminal behaviour, for revenge purposes against groups or even in ritualistic human sacrifice ceremonies and to facilitate confiscations from rich people.

It was not possible to civilise the human race in 5 minutes I'm afraid.

From stuff I have read people were tortured to death in American prisons in the 20th century for conscientious objection. So also slaves in various states of the US after the Constitution was ratified sometimes for just looking in a funny way or for not working hard enough.

The history of the human race is a long and sorry one and it seems to me that without Christianity the tragic tale would be still going on. So we have much to be thankful for imo.

The matter is far too complex for any facile comments about it to be of any significance today.

I very much doubt that you know what a witch was or why they were considered enemies of the state in a similar way that Bradley Manning is now by some.

They were very insecure in those days. Famine, pestilence and marauding bands of heathens were a constant thtreat and communications were almost non-existent. One thing is sure and it is that life was a waking nightmare and it isn't now and Christianity is the source of that improvement.

Hardly, after I defined God for you. The answer I gave is "Yes".

Your re-defined god is not the one I was enquiring after. I was talking about the one in the Bible.

Sorry!! I didn't think you was a Bible thumper.

The concept was a bit the same then though for those with a modicum of intelligence. The general rabble are another matter of course. They need to be cajoled.

Intellectuals are concerned with who does the cajoling and with what objectives and the long term working out of them.

The long term working out of the "liberal agenda" seems to me, and it is only an opinion I admit, to be heading for catastrophe.

I'll need to see some evidence for that.



That pretty much applies to the whole of civilization, though, so no news there.

A rather self-serving pontification, don’t you think, Spendius.

Fact is, a better, more logical case can be made in the opposite direction. Humankind was making steady improvements in law, art, architecture, philosophy, and the like…during the years that Rome was in its prime. Then Christianity became ascendant in the west…and civilization was plunged into 800+ years of stagnation.

Except that some people were willing to buck Christianity…we’d probably still be in reverse gear.

Life indeed was a waking nightmare…and has improved despite Christianity’s attempts to keep it as miserable as it was.

Self-doubt, crippling guilt and shame skyrocketed in step with the spread of xtianity. The day I jettisoned that ton of emotional baggage was a day of liberation.

Spendius, I don’t think America is as far away from witch burnings as you might think. During Baby Bush’s term in office the religious right thought they had a mandate and the more radical elements wanted a law passed that mandated the death penalty for blasphemy. What is truth to one religion is of course blasphemy to another. The blood would have run coast to coast if the religious right got their way. Of course the Christian right would make Christianity the one true religion by law. Once all the infidels had been executed the religious right would turn to different dogma in the Christian faith and start having them executed just as they did during the Dark Ages. We may have thought that the religious cult members have come a long way since the dark ages but you have to remember the ignorance of the Dark Ages is alive and well in the written dogma which survived the Dark Ages intact.
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Nobody can answer for things that happened in the long past. We can’t even be sure what you dwelt on so lovingly actually took place and is not anti-Christian propaganda made up by enemies of the church

Spendius
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Spendius I’ll bet you are a Holocaust denier also. These incidences took place during recorded history and the church kept detailed records. The instruments of torture are still in museums today. There is absolutely no doubt that all the murdering and torture took place. The religious right had a field day. You could stand in a mountain of bodies in a concentration camp and make belief it was just Jewish propaganda the Arabs do.

Confiscating from the rich, it was the rich that were doing the confiscating during the Inquisition, this was not a revolution where the poor were being starved this was the rich feasting on the rich.

It was religion that gave us human sacrifice a paranoid imagines a god and then they imagine that god wants a sacrifice. A biblical character who no doubt was schizophrenic and hearing voices hears god tell him to sacrifice his son and then “god” calls it off at the last minute. While we are all familiar with schizophrenia today, 2000 years ago mental illness would be called a religious experience.

Those who find themselves at the mercy of religion find themselves at the mercy of man’s imagination. The vast an abiding level of ignorance in the bible is an exact reflection of the vast ignorance of its time period.

Spendius if it was not possible to civilize the human race in 5 minutes why would there be an outcry from the religious for the death penalty for blasphemy today? Religion hasn’t changed in 2,000 years but the constraints placed on it by society has. The Arab world was at one time was the most advanced on earth and gave us the science of mathematics but religion took it kicking and screaming back into the dark ages. Religion always waits in the wings to drag a civilization back into the darkness of ignorance.

Actually at any one time in America 50 serial killers torture and kill their victims. But we understand this to be a mental illness. They are called psychopaths and a psychopath killing torturing his victims is not unusual but and organized religion that kills and tortures in the name of their imaginary god at the very least demonstrates that god does not in fact exist because no god would tolerate the torture and killing of human being done in his name. If the Dark Ages proved one thing it is that god does not exist.

Why would a god condemn people to be a victim of serial killer? These people are kidnapped off the street at random to be a victim. The parallels between the individual as serial killers and the Christianity as a serial killer are striking but even Hitler did not derive pleasure out of torturing the Jews. It is one thing to kill but it is quite different thing to derive pleasure from torturing people.

If you would turn Christianity lose from the restraints of government today it would not take very long for the killings to start again. In the Dark Ages the Church controlled the governments what changed was that churches were stripped from the control of government. That is why the killing stopped not because the religious cult followers believe any differently. We need only to look at the Arab world were religion shares secular power of government to see the reality of religion.

Not for everybody. Check out Rabelais. Self-doubt, crippling guilt and shame skyrocketed in step with the spread of television.

Liberation is a relative concept. Being able to afford more and more of it is simply a function of our confidence and economic success. "You didn't do that". In straightened times it is not affordable and dealt with appropriately.

I am glad you liked them. I have been reading many of your post in different threads and you seem to have a lot of truth to share.

I am not. Not in the least. Nor am I a denier that much evil was done in the Christian world of the past. I don't think we can be sure. Which is what I questioned. I'm pretty certain some of it was made up for propaganda purposes. And I'm pretty sure that the evil that was done had economic motives. Not religious ones. It was a survival strategy.

What you might think unimportant matters now might well have been vital then. A matter of life and death.

You have mistaken me for your straw man opponent. Straw man here I mean. Probably in the interests of enjoying an irrelevant rant.

The madmen on the religious right are pissing into the wind. They will only become relevant if the famed melt-down melts down.

A matter of life and death for the church?

Hmm. It sure looks like English, but...

Great comment, FBM.

Been a lot of that "looks like English, but..." going around lately.

Not entirely.

If you don't wish to answer the points raised, FB, I might as well cease responding to you. Half-baked wise-cracks need no answer.

It was English. I'm sorry if it was outside your comprehension. I can't be expected to cater to insufficiencies in that regard.

There's never been any shortage of idiots posting on language issues. That's likely the result of those generations raised on Strunk & White..

It's only partly that JT. Being habituated to marking your own homework is a significant factor.

Thanks for responding comprehensibly this time. At least we agree on one thing: If you can't/don't plan to use language according to prevailing linguistic and syntactic conventions, it's best to cease responding to me.