Atheists... Your life is pointless

Momma Angel wrote:

But my question is, how can a Christian or non-Christian vote their conscience without taking into consideration their religious beliefs/spiritual beliefs, non-beliefs, etc., since IMO those beliefs are IMO number one in our lives?

By acknowledging the reality that one's own beliefs are personal and do not necessarily reflect what's best for our country. Every holder of public office swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows for religious judgement in the performance of one's duties. In fact, it prohibits it. Any individual who cannot separate his personal faith from his decision-making while in a public capacity should not take office.

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BBB Wrote:

Quote:

You will find that some posters seem to have a compulsive need to turn every thread and every response into being about them. Such egos are remarkable.

BBB

Out of respect for our differences, I have not been posting in opposition to you. However, in this instance, I feel I must. I did not feel persecuted. I was merely asking a question that I wanted to know an answer to. If I had felt persecuted, I would have said so. I would think that would be apparent to you since I have pointed out times that I did feel that way. This is not one of them.

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J_B Wrote:

Quote:

By acknowledging the reality that one's own beliefs are personal and do not necessarily reflect what's best for our country. Every holder of public office swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows for religious judgement in the performance of one's duties. In fact, it prohibits it. Any individual who cannot separate his personal faith from his decision-making while in a public capacity should not take office.

I understand your point. But, my point is, can you really expect ANYONE to totally disregard what they believe is moral or not?

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I expect anyone who holds public office to be guided by the rules of that office, be it the U.S. Constitution, their state Constitution, or local laws and ordinances. Public office should never be used to the advancement of personal agenda, regardless of it's source. We have a representative government at all levels. We elect public officials to represent the interests of the people in their constituency. So, yes, I do expect people to put their personal agendas aside and govern in the best interest of the populace under the rules of government as prescribed by the Constitution.

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J_B wrote:

I expect anyone who holds public office to be guided by the rules of that office, be it the U.S. Constitution, their state Constitution, or local laws and ordinances. Public office should never be used to the advancement of personal agenda, regardless of it's source. We have a representative government at all levels. We elect public officials to represent the interests of the people in their constituency. So, yes, I do expect people to put their personal agendas aside and govern in the best interest of the populace under the rules of government as prescribed by the Constitution.

J_B,

There is a difference IMO of having a personal agenda and having moral standards you live by. Yes, I agree there are some Chrisitians with a personal agenda regarding politics. But, there are also those that do not have a personal agenda.

If a person is a non-believer, non-christian, etc., they would vote their moral conscience, right? What would be the difference between a Christian doing this and a non-Christian doing this?

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None

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mesquite wrote:

The group of folks that set up the US government made certain that religion was not a part of it. You deal with that.

Is that why

the signers of The Declaration of Independence wrote:

all men are created equal; they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men[/i]

This is what they understood the very purpose of government to be.

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real life wrote:

mesquite wrote:
The group of folks that set up the US government made certain that religion was not a part of it. You deal with that.

Is that why

the signers of The Declaration of Independence wrote:
all men are created equal; they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men[/i]

This is what they understood the very purpose of government to be.

I have no problem with that. I also realize that they understood that mixing religion and government was a recipe for trouble, so that when they set up the rules for government ( our Constitution) there was no mention of any divinity, not even creator, nor nature or nature's god. They underscored that message with first ammendment; "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;".

It is because of the Constitution that you are able to practice your religion as you see fit, and not as Neologist, or RexRed, or the Pope, or anyone else deems you should practice it.

What a wonderful document it is.

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Mesquite,

Then I guess I am confused on what the real problem is.

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The problem is when one group asserts their power to force others to do it their way.

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I would submit then that both groups here could be guilty of the same charge.

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Examples please.

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Well, you want it one way and I want it another way. In each of us wanting "our" way and lobbying for that, we each are asserting our powers of force (whatever they may be) to have it our way, right?

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As T Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" Thus building a wall of separation between church and state"
------from M D Peterson, (ed.) Thomas Jefferson: Writings, 1984, p510.

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Perhaps this is another interpetration of what Thomas Jefferson meant by separation of church and state?

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

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MA,
Go to this link and look at some of the items in the Texas Republican Party Platform to see some of the things I am speaking about. Intrepid may want to look at it too in order to see what some of the fear is all about.

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/002380.html

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Mesquite,

I agree with some of it and I disagree with some of it.

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mesquite wrote:

MA,
Go to this link and look at some of the items in the Texas Republican Party Platform to see some of the things I am speaking about. Intrepid may want to look at it too in order to see what some of the fear is all about.

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/002380.html

O.K., I read it. Some I agree with and some I do not. Of course, none of the items in there will directly affect me so I am looking from the outside.

I am still against abortion, but have no problem with people being gay if that is their decision. I don't condone it, but I certainly don't condemn it.
I am not in a position to speak on the financial implication mentioned.

I do not know if everything written is accurate since it seems to be a bit of a slanted view. Having said that.... I am not a fan of George Bush and his party. If everything IS true, I can understand the frustration and fear. I still cannot, however, understand blaming all Christians for what one political party stands for.

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MA,
Realizing you are part of the problem is one of the reasons I have devoted some time in your direction. :wink:

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BBB

Momma Angel wrote:

Perhaps this is another interpetration of what Thomas Jefferson meant by separation of church and state?

http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

What is the source of the quote?

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Atheists... Your life is pointless

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