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Atheists... Your life is pointless

Forums: Atheists, Spirituality And Religion, Krishnamurti, Izanami, Izanagi
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Cyracuz
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
What would you call it?
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 11:51 am
@spendius,
"Some philosopher"? Smile
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:03 pm
@Cyracuz,
I could get the name if I had more time.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Thu 15 Dec, 2011 12:05 pm
@spendius,
It isn't very important. I just thought the wording was funny after that "some christians" business.
Shapeless
 
  3  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 01:50 pm
@Cyracuz,
http://www.atheistcartoons.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/towerofbabble.jpg
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 02:50 pm
@Cyracuz,
And you possibly also thought Cyr that the focus enabled you to glide by the statement--"worldly carnal lusts are all atheists have to go on."

How do you ground a morality in those? Power?
Eorl
 
  2  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 06:20 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Yes. If you say "I don't believe in god" you are still talking about god.


This is nonsense, and a strawman.

The variation in definitions of atheism means that only thing you can say about any given atheist, is that they do not believe in any gods.

Let me try this game. Christians say "there is only one god" This means they define themselves through thier Anti-Hinduism. They certainly hold negative positions on thousands of gods, and a positive position on just one.

spendius
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 06:29 pm
@Eorl,
For which we ought to be truly grateful. I know I am.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 06:46 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
The variation in definitions of atheism means that only thing you can say about any given atheist, is that they do not believe in any gods.


Precisely. That is all the term means. A-theism, as in anti-theism.

All belief systems are centered around their own beliefs, and the idea is to embrace those beliefs and live according to them. Atheism is centered around other belief systems, and the idea is to reject them as fiction. It is not in itself a belief system. Most atheists have other belief systems, like agnosticism, for instance.

Just try and see if you can find any definitions of "atheism" that do not involve the rejection of deities (other people's beliefs).

Quote:
Let me try this game. Christians say "there is only one god" This means they define themselves through thier Anti-Hinduism. They certainly hold negative positions on thousands of gods, and a positive position on just one.


Could have been the case, if christianity was something that came into existence as a reaction to hinduism.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 06:48 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
And you possibly also thought Cyr that the focus enabled you to glide by the statement--"worldly carnal lusts are all atheists have to go on."

How do you ground a morality in those? Power?


Sorry, I do not follow.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 06:58 pm
@Cyracuz,
All babies are atheists.

http://www.investigatingatheism.info/definition.html

"The definition for atheism that we use, put simply, says that atheism is the lack of a god-belief, the absence of theism, to whatever degree and for whatever reason"

http://www.positiveatheism.org/faq/faq1111.htm#WHATISPOSATH
Eorl
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:06 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
all you can say about any given atheist, is that they do not believe in any gods.


Precisely. That is all the term means. A-theism, as in anti-theism.



You're not appreciating the difference between "not believing in any gods" and stating "I do not believe in god". These two things are far from equal, though near enough at first glance to be very often used (usually by theists) to define atheism as a belief, or even as a religion.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:10 pm
@Eorl,
Quote:
All babies are atheists.


No. They have never thought of the idea of a god and then rejected it.

Quote:
"The definition for atheism that we use, put simply, says that atheism is the lack of a god-belief, the absence of theism, to whatever degree and for whatever reason"


Yep, same thing. It explains atheism as the rejection of theism. It doesn't say what an atheist believes. It only says what he don't believe.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:19 pm
@Cyracuz,
Quote:
It explains atheism as the rejection of theism


It does? rejection?
Eorl
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:34 pm
@Cyracuz,
Let me try another tack.

To an advocate of ear-candling, he may well want to define people as those who believe in the efficacy of ear-candling and those who don't. Does a non-earcandler define themselves as such? There may be a small minority who do. They may be professional skeptics who sell books debunking ear-candling. But what you cannot say, is that being a non-earcandler is a belief system, or even a defining characteristic of one. There are many who have never heard of ear-candling and as a consequence do not believe in ear-candling.

Theism looms so large in the worldview of some theists, that they can't imagine a worldview that does not include the object of their worship, even in a negative way.

An atheists worldview LACKS theism. SOME have anti-theistic beliefs, some have none. You are wrong to say they all do.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
It's not a "rejection." A newborn baby is an apatheist, because it still doesn't know much about anything, and has not been taught the three R's or language. The baby doesn't reject any form of religion or politics. Non-belief doesn't mean rejection.

Apatheism might better describe the newborn which means indifference to religion.
Antitheism is the rejection of theism.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I can see where you might say that about a baby but Wikipedia seems to have another use in mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 07:55 pm
@reasoning logic,
I like my interpretation and explanation better.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 08:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Like I said I can see where you would say that about a baby.
There seems to be a word for every thing before you know it they will have a words for male and female atheist.
Eorl
 
  1  
Fri 23 Dec, 2011 08:18 pm
@reasoning logic,
As a femtheist supporting mantheist, I object !
0 Replies
 
 

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