Atheists... Your life is pointless

@Pookie53,

'Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

this quote goes straight into the heart of the eason why most of us here cannot believe in a supernatural creator God. the idea that one is blessed if one can believe without seeing, that is the very reason I cannot bring myself to believe; its irrational, I cannot just throw away reason to simply believe that I am blessed to believe without evidence.

this quote encourages belief without evidence, belief without reason, which is the very thing preventing reasonable people from believing.

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@existential potential,

Which always reminds me this spoonerism : Christians, your point is lifeless..

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@Francis,

"blessed are those who's beliefs are irrational"-Jesus.

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@existential potential,

That's the very reason why they call it "faith." Faith doesn't require any evidence to believe. Look at all the humans who have faith; they number in the majority on this planet from one generation to the next.

I call religion an accident of birth; the child becomes what their parents believe; it doesn't matter which religious' belief.

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@cicerone imposter,

I am perfectly comfortable with the notion of "irrationalism"; I think it is the very basis of art and religion. But I do not accept the use of irrational faith as some kind of counter to knowledge, i.e., "knowledged" based on or consistent with empirical evidence and rationalism. I use the terms rationalism and irrationalism as shorthands for logical, evidence-based, consciously experienced conclusions on the one hand, and intuition, hunches, and unconsciously experienced* conclusions on the other. A life that is only intuitive and unconsciously experienced is only a partial life, but then again so is one consisting only of conscious and logically generated experiences.

* (not an oxymoron)

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@JLNobody,

I am too to the extent they don't try to "save our souls from hell."

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@JLNobody,

Quote:

I am perfectly comfortable with the notion of "irrationalism"; I think it is the very basis of art and religion.

How so?

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's the very reason why they call it "faith." Faith doesn't require any evidence to believe. Look at all the humans who have faith; they number in the majority on this planet from one generation to the next.

I call religion an accident of birth; the child becomes what their parents believe; it doesn't matter which religious' belief.

Based on your rationale.... how do you account for religious people born of atheist parents and atheist people born of religeous people?

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@Intrepid,

You just can't see the numbers for the forest. It is very rare for anybody who comes from a religious family to drop his/her religion. Most of us who call ourselves atheist also come from religious families.

It's not surprising to find an atheist become religious; they are called "born again.....," but I betcha dollars to donuts there are very few of us who will "return" to any religion.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

It is very rare for anybody who comes from a religious family to drop his/her religion. Most of us who call ourselves atheist also come from religious families.

Come again?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

how do you account for religious people born of atheist parents and atheist people born of religeous people?

Natural rejection of parental authority and authority in general.

Have you any more easy questions?

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@aidan,

aiden, As I've stated often, religion is an accident of birth. If we can accept this as a general rule, most of us would know that in the US, over 80% consider themselves christians. That's also true of most cultures of this world; one can almost guess what religion are practiced in Europe, Asia, South America, or the Middle East. There's a practical reason for that; most follow the religion of their parents.

I have also noticed that the individuals on a2k who have claimed they were atheists came from families that believed in one religion or another. Many of the atheists I have personally met also came from religious families including your's truly.

I have a Jewish friend who believes in atheism (or no theism). I have also met a Jewish doctor on a flight from Chicago to San Jose some decades ago who is Buddhist. I mention this only because calling oneself an atheist has no clear definition.

Whether one's culture is fundamentally Buddhist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination, most believe in the religion of their families and friends.

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@cicerone imposter,

With the exception of the surly rejectors of parental authority who have the "I'm different" problem.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
how do you account for religious people born of atheist parents and atheist people born of religeous people?

Natural rejection of parental authority and authority in general.

Have you any more easy questions?

I try to make them easy for C.I., but he goes off in unknown territory even with the easy ones. He thinks that very few people born of religious parents leave their religion. I wonder where he gets these facts.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

aiden, As I've stated often, religion is an accident of birth.

You have stated it, but where do you get this information? Out of thin air? My parents were not religious at all. Religion had nothing to do with my birth. It had to do with me making up my own mind based on experiences and having my eyes opened to a better way of life.

Since, by your own statement, 80% of Americans consider themselves Christians do you think that this is because their family was religious. Do you think that all 80% actually consider themselve religious? Why are there only 2% atheists? Is that due to an accident of birth in being born to 2% of the population rather than 80%?

Do you think that 80% of the poplulaton is so stupid that they cannot make any decisions for themselves?

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@aidan,

There is no such thing as art that is purely logically generated. The entire mind (both its conscious and unconscious dimensions) must operate both in the creation and the appreciation of art.

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@Intrepid,

But C.I.'s right insofar as people who remain in stable and idelogically homogenous communities are VERY unlikely to adopt foreign ways and beliefs. The result would be explicit or implicit ostraciztion.

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@Intrepid,

Intripid, You do understand there's a huge difference between anecdotal experience and what happens in the world at large don't you? Even my personal experience is different, because all my siblings are christians, married to christians, and all their children are christians. I married a buddhist, and our two sons are not committed to any religion. My wife is still active with the church.

I do not get this information about 'religion is an accident of birth' from "thin air." It's through observation and looking at demographics of different countries.

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@JLNobody,

Quote:

I am perfectly comfortable with the notion of "irrationalism"; I think it is the very basis of art and religion.

Quote:

There is no such thing as art that is purely logically generated. The entire mind (both its conscious and unconscious dimensions) must operate both in the creation and the appreciation of art.

Yes, I can see that - and at the same time, although art may not be purely logically generated- it seems to me that at its core, the expression of it is an effort to not only communicate but also formulate an individual or unique order that makes sense of something to someone. At least that's how it feels to me when I feel led to create something- that I'm taking disparate or unorganized components and arranging them in a way that is meaningful or yes, logical and makes sense to me.

So while art and religion may certainly stem from the creative (I wouldn't particularly say irrational) the expression of them might be looked at as an effort to obtain or attain an order that makes what feels like logical sense of life's emotional or sensory input.

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@aidan,

aiden, We've often discussed this irrationality about religion that resembles love; you can't see it but it's never-the-less there, and exists for many humans. I believe love of art falls into another category all-together, and it's a combination of our own experiences and subjective appreciation or negative reaction in many different combinations and presentations.

1 Reply

Atheists... Your life is pointless

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