what tipe of religion are you

Conversion to Judaism is a commonplace. One of the most celebrated examples here in the United States (where examples abound) was the African-American entertainer, Sammy Davis, Jr.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

"since there's NO conversion to judaism. "

I distinctly remember being told by a Jew that it was possible.

yes through complex ritual/ceremony.

even then the orthodox jews may not accept the "convert" as one of their own - and most likely the state of israel wont recognise the "convert" either - cos he/she cant change the fact that the his/her mother wasnt jewish, if she (the mom) wasnt.

remember here that jews are both a people and a religion - unlike say buddhists.

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Setanta wrote:

Conversion to Judaism is a commonplace. One of the most celebrated examples here in the United States (where examples abound) was the African-American entertainer, Sammy Davis, Jr.

one/ a few, "conversion'' makes it commonplace ??

no rabbi/orthodox jew, will ever consider that afro american as a jew. the state of israel neither.

ie. every true jew anywhere in the world has a right to seek citizenship in israel - this guy will have no such right.

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Your egregious slur against the State of Israel is not only unwarranted, it is untrue. Converts to Judaism enjoy the same rights as any Jew who wishes to emmigrate to Israel.

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Setanta wrote:

Your egregious slur against the State of Israel is not only unwarranted, it is untrue. Converts to Judaism enjoy the same rights as any Jew who wishes to emmigrate to Israel.

i have nothing against the state of israel.

dont have to jump the gun and brand every body an anti semitic at the drop of a hat ya know !!

i come from the only country in the world out of 156 odd where JEWS WERE NEVER EVER TORTURED/PERSECUTED. get your facts straight.

the reason i allude to the state of israel is that they have a law that states that jews have a right to emmigrate/seek citizenship is israel.

and "converts" wont be allowed. if some guy from a slum in rio de janerio, or a millionaire from the bay area converts to judaism - he wont get any citizenship rights in israel. ie. i alluded to this israeli law, to show that the "conversion" wont be recognised.

i personally know a russian girl, from a jewish dad and a christian mom, who isnt recognised as a jew, neither by the theocracy not by the stste of israel. and she served in the idf !!!

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You get your facts straight--i did not brand you anti-semitic, although your sensitivity to the issue does make me wonder what you feel deep in your heart. Ireland, the homeland of my ancestors, has never tortured or persecuted the Jews--get your facts straight. The United States has never tortured or persecuted Jews--get your facts straight. Canada has never tortured or persecuted the Jews--get your facts straight. The list of nations in which the Jews have never been tortured or persecuted is actually quite extensive--get your facts straight.

Israeli Immigration Law

Which reads, in part:

There are only two groups that can have legal claims to citizenship or residency in Israel:

1. Jews- (a Jew is defined as a person who was either born to a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism).

2. The family of a Jew - the wife/husband of a Jew, the children of a Jew, the grandchildren of a Jew.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT . . .

Anectdotal evidence of someone you say you know whom you say was denied citizenship don't mean squat.

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Setanta wrote:

You get your facts straight--i did not brand you anti-semitic, although your sensitivity to the issue does make me wonder what you feel deep in your heart. Ireland, the homeland of my ancestors, has never tortured or persecuted the Jews--get your facts straight. The United States has never tortured or persecuted Jews--get your facts straight. Canada has never tortured or persecuted the Jews--get your facts straight. The list of nations in which the Jews have never been tortured or persecuted is actually quite extensive--get your facts straight.

Israeli Immigration Law

Which reads, in part:

There are only two groups that can have legal claims to citizenship or residency in Israel:

1. Jews- (a Jew is defined as a person who was either born to a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism).

2. The family of a Jew - the wife/husband of a Jew, the children of a Jew, the grandchildren of a Jew.

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT . . .

Anectdotal evidence of someone you say you know whom you say was denied citizen don't mean squat.

lmao - usa and canada and ireland never persecuted jews? not a single jew was persecuted ??????????????????

thats what i meant !!

NOT A SINGLE JEW.

it dont help if you score better than germany at lack of anti semetism.

i mean NOT A SINGLE JEWISH SOUL.

last year in israeli diplomat, after finishing his adress, put his papers aside and said "now let me speak from my heart. so saying he thanked us for being the only country in the world where jews were never persecuted and then asked every body in the bemused audience to stand up and join him in singing OUR nathinal anthem.

get your facts straight.

there's just one country in the world off the 155 odd that jews have been to, where there is not a single instance of any persecution, torture, attempt at conversion anything.

san fransisco last time i checked was well within the usa - and a hot bed of anti semitism. remember even a remark, qualifies the country as anti semitic - gas chambers arnt needed.

the 2nd rule you stated, being a dicey one (its easy to dance around it) is often tried to be violated - and thus israel dont always allow citizenships to converted people (the orthodox / talbudic jews never ever recognise the children of a non jewish mom as a jew anyway). and thats a fact. i know more than one such case - coverts and progeny of non jewish moms but jewish dads being denied citizenship rights.

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So you contend that not a single Jew was ever persecuted in the subcontinent. Were it not a violation of the terms of service, one would be tempted to call you a liar. I would never, of course, contemplate doing so.

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And if you meant not a single jew ever persecuted, you ought to have said so, but you didn't. Your comment had an obvious implication of official policy.

As for your ridiculous continuation of your anectdotal stories, please note that you have said children of Jewish fathers, and non-Jewish mothers. Read the automatic citizenship qualifiers again. Read the entire page--if they had wanted citizenship, they could have had it.

Get your facts straight.

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brahmin Wrote

Quote:

anything but common - since there's NO conversion to judaism.

one is born a jew or not.

Again, that is not true. Conversion to Judaism is possible. A difficult undertaking however that door is not as you seem to believe closed. .Jusdaism does not seek converts however if one truly wants to convert they can.

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right i should have said categorically "not a single jew was persecuted".

and thats true to the word in the subcontinent - i cant guarrantee about pakistan. but india it holds and the israeli embassy has corroborated as much. no diplomats, least of all the ones who have produced the likes of david ben gurion, are known to say baseless things - that too as official statements.

if usa wasnt antisemitic in the slightest, then the adl would be out of business long back. but is so happens that they are usually neck deep in work.

if you give me your e-mail id, i'll send you a vedio clip, that shows a jewish singer from one of the satellite russian countries, singing a anti-jew song in front of an unknowing crowd (they didnt know he was jewish) in mid western usa - and how men women children and the elderly all joined in the anti semetic fun.
so thats usa - no gas chambes yes, but not really entirely (note the word entirely) respectful of jews.

if you know, there are at least 2 places in india where the 10 lost tribes of israel have ended up. they are the ones i know who are not always accepted as pure jews, unless they have totally abstained from intermarrying.

also you can ask any jewish friends in israel, if you have a few like i do, and they will corroborate that the 2nd law is a conditional law - if the state of isreal finds that someone is converting to judaism with emigration to a first world/western country as the sole aim - they reserve the right to deny that person citizenship. its commonplace, as any true israeli citizen/sabra will attest.

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au1929 wrote:

brahmin Wrote

Quote:

anything but common - since there's NO conversion to judaism.

one is born a jew or not.

Again, that is not true. Conversion to Judaism is possible. A difficult undertaking however that door is not as you seem to believe closed. .Jusdaism does not seek converts however if one truly wants to convert they can.

yes they can. sorry i was in the wrong. a little.

i meant to say that in the same way i could say (and be in the right for having said so) that no ss was a jew sympathiser - now will i be wrong just cos a miniscule fraction of them in fact did oppose the darkest chapter of human history?

conversion to judaism is possible. technically. like its possible to go to mars.

and even if someone successfully undertakes that difficult journey, he/she cant ever become a jew by ethnicity.
a black from nigeria and a mongoloid from taiwan wont become jewish by ethnicity, no matter how many times they convert.
and yes, they wont be accepted as jews by some sections of jewish soceity.

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"there are at least 2 places in india where the 10 lost tribes of israel have ended up."

please explain more on this

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I've not contended that there is no anti-semitism in the United States, and no i wouldn't give you my e-mail address if i were paid good money. I consider you a suspect individual, the more so after the ranting you just done in this thread.

Your contention that the Israeli embassy has stated that there has never been a single incident of a Jew being persecuted in India stinks--i won't believe it until you produce reliable evidence. This statement: "no diplomats, least of all the ones who have produced the likes of david ben gurion, are known to say baseless things"--is almost too absurd to answer, but i will answer it: Diplomats are paid liars, it's their stock in trade.

That is such a load of crap, that i can't be bothered to respond any further. Well ain't you just simon-pure . . .

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

"there are at least 2 places in india where the 10 lost tribes of israel have ended up."

please explain more on this

meaning in manipur and mizoram in eastern india, there are jews and also in cochin in southern india.

they are part of the "lost tribes" & have been there since the time the assyrians usurped the kingdom of israel - judea was left well alone if i know right

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Say Brahmin, when y'all are being so polite and considerate to the Jews, why are those Hindus assaulting Muslims, destroying mosques? Perhaps your fellow countrymen are not so tolerant as you would have us believe.

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I have just reported your post to the moderators for branding me anti-semitic. That is a violation of the terms of service.

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brahmin
To begin with the Ethiopian Jews are and have been accepted as Jews by the state of Israel.
As to anti Semites, that there are anti-Semites living in the US, Canada or elsewhere does not brand a nation as anti-Semitic. No more than branding it anti-Catholic, Christian, Islamic and, etc., because there are people of that stripe living therein.

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Setanta wrote:

Say Brahmin, when y'all are being so polite and considerate to the Jews, why are those Hindus assaulting Muslims, destroying mosques? Perhaps your fellow countrymen are not so tolerant as you would have us believe.

yes.

you hit the nail on the head.

the jews never broke our temples, nor tried to force indians to judaism.

unlike the muslms.

if after 600 years of opression under the muslims, during which twice the number of hindus were killed as the number of jews in the holocaust, in which close of 100,000 documented temples were razed to the ground, and often a mosque built in its place - we find it hard to keep out sentiments botrled up and break one solitary mosque on december 6th 1992 (only one - "hindus assaulting muslims and breaking mosques" comes from disney land - a fairy tale) - then you can hardly blame us.

its to our immense credit that such incidents occur once in 3 decades or so in india.

in europe the muslims were charles martel-ed. we tolerated them - on conditions that they leave us be. and they arnt too well known to do that - anywhere in the world.

the jews and zorastrians in india, in sharp contrast to the muslims, didnt touch us ever - and were in turn never touched.

zorastrianism is dead or nearly so in its home country. lives in india though. untouched.

there's a chineese proverb - about 5000 years old as most chinese probers usually are -

" its a wise man who doesnt get angry - its a fooling man who cannot get angry"

equally valid for nations and people, that line.

the jews also never ever harmed a fly. but when push comes to punch via shove, they have the palmach and the hagannah blowing up hotels. and thats justified.

get your facts straight.

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Setanta wrote:

I have just reported your post to the moderators for branding me anti-semitic. That is a violation of the terms of service.

and what should i do about your posts branding me as liar, and of suspect character and hinting at my supposed anti semitic leanings?

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