COULD THE USA BECOME A SECOND CLASS NATION IN OUR....

yes the bysantine empire lastest till 1453 (i think?) when Constanople was sacked by the Ottoman Turks after a lengthy seige.. that empire peaked a few hundred years after the fall of the western empire with Justinian but declined slowly after, losing Anatolia and various territories.. it rose slightly again during the crusades but its power was completely crushed after a crusader army, denied entry by the bysantine emperor turned and sacked the city.. it waned and lastest only 200 years after its sack...
the american 'empire' still is extremely powerful, and even will continue to grow for the time being... china will surpass the US in 50+ years but ultimately within a few hundred years Russia will once again return to being a great power.. face it, russia is extremely large, vastly wealthy in minerials and oil..

Russia does have vast holdings of land and resources. If it had had quality leadership and a responsive government, one wonders what would have happened by now.

Americans have a narrow perspective. Other than the Civil War, they have escaped the normal trials and tribulations endured by countries which are surrounded by other countries. We've only been considered powerful for what, 50 years? And lately, we have been increasing our isolation with the world community.

Not-so-indirectly related to your question is the following. Perhaps posted elsewhere, but worth a read nonetheless (from snopes.com):

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration ?- both legal and illegal ?- was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: First to destroy America, "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy. Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, "We could make the United States a 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved! Not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'"

Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity! Unity is what it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshiped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic Games.

A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell.

"E. Pluribus Unum" ?- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'x! xenophobes' halt discussion and debate."

"Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause.

A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America ?- take note of California and other states ?- to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy are deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

Hmmmm...well Berm, let's see who responds to your posting.

My answer to the first question, as I haven't read the rest yet:

It might have happened quite quickly, had Saddam succeeded in his aim of pegging Iraqi oil to the Euro, and other developed nations then as a result came out of Dollars US.

McTag, I hadn't heard that argument. As I understand it, the US's debt is held by many countries, one of which is China. How did we go from having extra dollars to deep debt in 5-6 years. Does anyone have the numbers?

america is in the biggest amount of debt in world history.. a few trillion.... my national debt is 30+ or - billion... despite the massive difference between us two, trillions is rediculous because of their world dominating economy and military... the latter is the reason for its national debt.. could america afford another major war, (much larger than iraq), if one arises??

I keep thinking about a quote from VP Cheney in response to our then Secretary of the Treasure who was concerned about our increased debt, "Reagan proved spending (debt) is not a problem...".

Gov. Lamm is short-sighted and wrong. Experience shows that immigrants and their descendants within two generations are as American as natives in ideology and outlook (and language). And they bring new ideas and new drive to the mix.

And if we weren't so insular and monoglot, and just took the logical step of teaching Spanish as a second language to everyone from kindergarten up, and a little respect for cultural traditions, we'd be much better set to help weld the entire western hemisphere together, half the world, with huge resources, and just one more language needed on our part. Well, and if we learned the merengue, we'd have a much better sense of rhythm.

I already think of Americans as second-class citizens in the world.

:wink: Whoops, that isn't nice is it?!

flushd,
Would you outline some of your thinking?

well to be honest, alot of americans are very dumb... a friend of mine was in the gym and there was an american man working out near him.. my friend being the tool he is had the flu and was sniffing and sneezing.. this american complained to the staff that he had bird flu and went rebuked left in a fuss!

another time in France, a few friends and i completely on the piss were in an irish bar as us irish do abroad... the beer was flowing and we were quite drunk when two american teenagers entered.. of course they starred at us for about thirty minutes before the big question was popped.. "u guys irish?".. overjoyed and telling us tall tales of their grand fathers and great grandfathers they brought us a round to a great cheer from all.. over the pint of 1664, i began to talk to one who i think was from westconson (mystery how to spell that) i in my drunken state told him about my recent trip to florida.. he enquired how did i get to florida and i told him i drove.. The New Trans - Atlantic Highway... 4000 miles of open road, from new york to galway in irealnd.. he was amazed and from the look in his eyes really believed me.. he asked me questions like how do u get food and 'gas'.. i replied there are mcdonalds' and burgerkings every 10 miles and gaspumps every 20.. later my friend told me that the guy i was talking to was a weirdo talking but driving across the atlantic on some road and getting to ireland that way..

ha ha ha funny Milf...yeah I can imagine

well im not slamming americans.. some are very nice hard working people.. well arnt nearly half of them obese now?

Yes and I am one of them.....

COULD THE USA BECOME A SECOND CLASS NATION IN OUR....
Milfmaster9, if you don't mind my asking, what is your age?

GWB = George With Bananas, is a banana republic wannabe dictator.

Milfmaster9 wrote



Remember, he was of Irish heritage. :wink:

:wink:

Re: COULD THE USA BECOME A SECOND CLASS NATION IN OUR....


Nah.

But China and India will become our equals eventually.