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O oh oh, what a jolly party the Republican Party is

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 01:08 pm
As i've already pointed out, i don't have a problem with it, and don't give a sh*t if it bothers you.

Man, are you the king of the witty comeback, or what?

(Insert rolly-eyed emoticon here.)
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:09 pm
When a CCW holder sees one of those "gun free zone" signs, their typical response is to avoid the "killing zone". Some, however, will ignore it and carry inside anway. Apparently, in this case, nobody did. Sad.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:13 pm
The concept that greater armament leads to less killing is foolish and ridiculous.

A CCW does not grant one judgment or wisdom. I personally don't trust you, CJ, to decide when or when it isn't time to start capping people. And why should I? You have displayed none of the qualities I would look for when it comes to judging the use of deadly force.

I attended the University of Texas; we had a sniper who you are no doubt familiar with. There were plenty, and I do mean plenty, of armed citizens who brought their guns and tried to take him out. They had zero effect. There's no persuasive evidence that there would have been any real effect on the gunman in this case.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:17 pm
Since when is a CCW an effective weapon against a sniper? Did I say that? That's ridiculous and a red herring.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:20 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Since when is a CCW an effective weapon against a sniper? Did I say that? That's ridiculous and a red herring.


It shows that there are a wide variety of situations in which concealed weapons are not useful in the slightest; the idea that if more people had been packing heat, the Omaha mall incident wouldn't have happened, is patently ridiculous and unsupportable by either fact or logic. The most likely result would have been further deaths.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:38 pm
I couldn't disagree more. If just one guy I know who lives in Nebraska happened to be there, I bet at least five families would have a nicer Christmas. Maybe more.

You have no idea how seriously people take their CCW responsibilty. Your mind is clouded with Berkeley bay water.

It never fails to amaze me that residents of San Francisco, Berkeley, and Marin don't understand how the rest of the country sees them. They all thing you are insane. Trust me. Cheezits, even New Yorkers have their liberal heads on straighter than you.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:42 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. If just one guy I know who lives in Nebraska happened to be there, I bet at least five families would have a nicer Christmas. Maybe more.

You have no idea how seriously people take their CCW responsibilty. Your mind is clouded with Berkeley bay water.


Assumptions. Stupid of you.

I know plenty of people who have CCWs. In Texas they are not uncommon. I have family members who have CCWs. It isn't that I don't think these people take things responsibly; I know they do, for the most part. It's the fact that many of them are not intelligent and I don't trust their judgment in a situation such as this. It's the fact that many of them, like yourself, CJ, can't wait for the day they get the chance to smoke someone. They would enjoy it, like you would. I don't really want those people waving guns around in a danger situation. There's no evidence that it would help at all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:44 pm
Why do you assume I want to "smoke" someone? You're just baiting, and that is against the TOS.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:45 pm
Considering the large number of CCW permits in the country, has this ever actually happened?

I can't think of any incidents so it seems that all this nonsense about shooting into crowds is just that, nonsense.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 02:48 pm
My Dad was an early CCW adopter. I know he's wanted to kill me a few times. I'm still here! Laughing
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 07:09 pm
cjhsa wrote:
The Republican party is much more jovial than their counterparts across the aisle. Recent studies indicate Republicans live much more normal lives than Dems and have better mental health. Repubs also have this:

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/republican-vs-democratic-women.jpg


The only downside to my leaving the Republican Party.
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 07:22 pm
cjhsa wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
for your holiday shopping pleasure; Don't go to the mall without one no matter what the law says;

Ruger SR9. Here are the specs. from the Ruger website:

** Weighs 26.5 oz., in a package of just 5.52" H x 7.55" L x 1.27" W

** Reliable, striker-fired ignition

** Easy, "Semi-Double Action" trigger-pull - 6.5 pounds.

** 17+1 Capacity. (Note: 17-round magazines are not available in all states and locales; 10-round magazines are available where required to meet state and local regulations limiting magazine capacity.)

** Chambered in 9mm Parabellum (9mm x 19).

** Short trigger reach.

** Unique reversible backstrap (flat or arched) to accommodate grip preferences.

** Slim, ergonomic grip features a 17-degree grip angle and three, 22 lpi checkered panels that provide a sure grip without being abrasive.

** Patented Ruger camblock helps absorb recoil.

** High-visibility 3-dot sight system is click adjustable for elevation and drift adjustable for windage.

** Picatinny rail accepts modern sighting devices (lights, lasers, etc.).

** Ultra-slim stainless steel slide.

** Ambidextrous magazine release.

** Ambidextrous 1911-style manual safety.

** Internal trigger bar interlock and striker blocker, trigger safety, and magazine disconnect.

** Visual and tactile loaded chamber indicator.

** Suggested retail price of just $525, including hard case, extra magazine, magazine loader, padlock, and instruction manual.


I'll take two. Too bad that mall was a "gun free zone" and people actually believed that little sticker was going to protect them. A few armed citizens could have easily made five or more family Christmases not suck.



Make that a few armed citizens who know how and when to use a gun. A childhood friend of mine's father was in the National Guard. The thought of him carrying a gun scared the daylights out of me- he was far too gun-ho. My mother, however, comes from a family that were avid gun collectors and hunters. Her brother won his marksman badge after just a week of basic before he was sent to Nam as a sniper. When he came home on leave before he left my mother could still out-shoot him. I'd trust my mother or either of her brothers or their father with any gun you'd care to name.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 08:13 pm
No thoughts on this bit, flaja?


nimh wrote:
Instead, how about addressing the topic that has come to hand. You have told some of us, respectively,

  • "You must not know anything about the Reichstag fire. ... To create the crisis the Nazis set fire to the Reichstag building."

  • "By any reputable account it was" the Nazis that set fire to the Reichstag building.

  • "Anyone who thinks the Nazis didn't start the Reichstag fire is a fool."

  • The claim that the Nazis set fire to the Reichstag building is not disputed "by reasonable people".

  • "Expert testimony showed that the supposed arsonist didn't have the time or the technical ability to start as many individual fires as were started in the building"

Now my above posts cite quite a bit of research. It includes Fritz Tobias's standard work that apparently established that it was indeed possible for one person "to start as many individual fires as were started in the building".

More generally, it includes a number of sources, including both a recently updated one and one as formal as the Institute for Dutch History, that instead draw the conclusion that it is more likely that Van der Lubbe acted alone. These are the ones I am basing my take on. The opposing take, which you have so far defended, is identified in these pieces as being held to still primarily by a group of dissenting leftist historians (a claim I can not evaluate).

Even the very cautious Encyclopedia Brittanica lemma makes clear that the question, at the very least, is very much disputed by reasonable people, and that reputable accounts are in fact divided.

These all contradict what you asserted, and provide much additional information. How would you evaluate your assertions in this light?



Still standing by your original claims?
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 08:26 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The concept that greater armament leads to less killing is foolish and ridiculous.


If a criminal wanted to shoot someone, why would they pick someone who could shoot back?

In the year 1181 Henry II, King of England, issued a law known as the Assize of Arms. According to this law:

Every knight was obliged to own a number of chainmail shirts, helmets, shields and lances.

Every freeman who owned a minimum amount of property was obliged to own a chainmail shirt, a shield and a lance.

Every freeman who owned a greater amount of property was obliged to own a hauberk (a type of chainmail shirt), an iron cap and a lance.
The freemen in every burgess was obliged to own a gambeson, an iron cap and a lance.

These weapons and military supplies had to be owned at all times. They could not be sold, given away, loaned or used a collateral for any debt. When an armsbearer died his materiel had to be left to his heirs.

However, this law prohibited anyone from owning more weaponry that this law required them to own- armed rebellion against a legitimate government is illegal.

It is interesting to note that England has not been invaded successfully even once in the 821 years since this law was issued.

BTW: Irony of ironies every armsbearer had to swear an oath saying that he had what the law required him to have each year before the feastday of St. Hilary.
0 Replies
 
flaja
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 08:43 pm
old europe wrote:
No thoughts on this bit, flaja?


nimh wrote:
Instead, how about addressing the topic that has come to hand. You have told some of us, respectively,

  • "You must not know anything about the Reichstag fire. ... To create the crisis the Nazis set fire to the Reichstag building."

  • "By any reputable account it was" the Nazis that set fire to the Reichstag building.

  • "Anyone who thinks the Nazis didn't start the Reichstag fire is a fool."

  • The claim that the Nazis set fire to the Reichstag building is not disputed "by reasonable people".

  • "Expert testimony showed that the supposed arsonist didn't have the time or the technical ability to start as many individual fires as were started in the building"

Now my above posts cite quite a bit of research. It includes Fritz Tobias's standard work that apparently established that it was indeed possible for one person "to start as many individual fires as were started in the building".

More generally, it includes a number of sources, including both a recently updated one and one as formal as the Institute for Dutch History, that instead draw the conclusion that it is more likely that Van der Lubbe acted alone. These are the ones I am basing my take on. The opposing take, which you have so far defended, is identified in these pieces as being held to still primarily by a group of dissenting leftist historians (a claim I can not evaluate).

Even the very cautious Encyclopedia Brittanica lemma makes clear that the question, at the very least, is very much disputed by reasonable people, and that reputable accounts are in fact divided.

These all contradict what you asserted, and provide much additional information. How would you evaluate your assertions in this light?



Still standing by your original claims?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 06:52 pm
The irony.

You're referencing the World Socialist Web Site, the Internet center of the International Committee of the Fourth International in an attempt to discredit Tobias?

Let me point out that the guys you're siding with work for the "the growth in the influence of a socialist political movement guided by a Marxist world outlook." Let me point out that their "aim is the establishment of world socialism." Let me also point out that they believe that "in the twenty-first century the fate of working people, and ultimately mankind as a whole, depends upon the success of the socialist revolution."

They probably don't have any interest in portraying an arsonist who happened to be a member of a splinter group of the Dutch Communist Party in a favourable light, eh? They're likely more credible than e.g. the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum or the Jewish Virtual Library, too. Bunch of historians, after all.

(Hey, have you managed to explain what constitutes a "legitimate conservative" already?)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Dec, 2007 07:25 pm
flaja wrote:

The obvious difference is that:

  • I didn't only cite a work from the 60s; I also cited a recently updated and republished biography of van der Lubbe; the current entry on Van der Lubbe in the Biographical Dictionary of the Netherlands, published by the Institute for Dutch History; and the current entry in the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

    All of which contradict your assertions.

  • The work by Tobias was cited specifically in the context of it being described as having become, in the 40 years that have passed since his work and the work of the two historians you quoted were published, the "standard work" on the subject. The only work, also, that's quoted at length in the Biographical Dictionary of the Netherlands lemma, from among the many that are listed in the references.
Now why am I not surprised that you pick up on Tobias but ignore the Institute for Dutch History, Encyclopedia Brittanica et. al.?
0 Replies
 
 

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