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Mon 10 Oct, 2005 03:15 pm
...to be inferior humans?
Why does the god of the Bible consider people who are physically handicapped, physically impaired...and such...as less worthy than people who do not suffer from those kinds of impairments?
At Leviticus 21:16ff, the god of the Bible "spoke to Moses, saying"...
..."No man of your descendants in succeeding generations, who has any defect, may approach to offer the bread of his God.
For any man who has a defect shall not approach: a man blind or lame, who has a marred face or any limb too long, a man who has a broken foot or broken hand, or is a hunchback or a dwarf, or a man who has a defect in his eye, or eczema or scab, or is a eunuch.
No man of the descendants of Aaron the priest, who has a defect shall come near to offer the offerings made by fire to the Lord. He has a defect; he shall not come near to offer the bread of his God.
He may eat the bread of his God, both the most holy and the holy, only he shall not go near the veil or approach the altar, because he has a defect, lest he profane My sanctuaries, for I the Lord sanctify them."
Why do you suppose the god of the Bible suggest that people with those kinds of defect will "profane" holy places by their mere presence?
Well, later on in The New Testament God got over that earlier viewpoint and had his son Jesus pop around town helaing the lame and the deaf and the lepers and many others as well. Maybe it was just that in the early days God hadn't figured out a good health plan for the physically infirmed or maybe God had a different meaning for it than what we currently see .
"Why does the god of the Bible consider handicapped people to be inferior humans?"
Because he/she/it is a scumbag??
Not uncommon, I believe, in ancient religions.
Eg, people with defects were not, I believe, allowed near the ancient olympics.
I suspect fear made people think they were cursed by god or somesuch.
Actually, it is common in animals to shun, or kill, deformed and injured members of their group.
Just an earlier stage of civilisation.
Lol...I know this is not what you want, Frank, but I thought i would give it to you anyway....heehee.....
Frank,
This isn't exactly what I thought you were going to come up with. Not sure how it relates to what we were talking about in the other thread.
Can you explain how you correlate the two so I can get a good understanding, please?
Frank,
You seem to be using your own interpretation for the book of Leviticus. And, in particular the 21st chapter. This chapter deals with purity of the Priests. It was not for the general population, but for the priests. Purity of mind, body and soul was necessary for the Priests and this chapter deals with that. Seems simple enough.
It has already been pointed out that Jesus healed the sick, lepers, lame, blind, deaf etc. This doesn't appear to be that God penalized the handicapped and indeed welcomed them just as He does today.
I am not attempting to change your mind or anything. I just think we should put this into a bit of perspective so that it does not appear that you are just creating another hate the Christian and God thread.
Phoenix32890 wrote:Frank wrote:Why do you suppose the god of the Bible suggest that people with those kinds of defect will "profane" holy places by their mere presence?
Think about it. The laws protecting persons with disabilities were written in our lifetimes. Even modern people have been put off, and prejudiced against, people suffering with illness, infirmity or deformity.
The Bible, IMO, was written by a primitive people, who certainly had less knowledge, understanding and empathy that we have today. What would you expect? It is logical that early peoples would be frightened of someone who has an infirmity or a deformity.
It is not a huge conceptual leap for those folks to believe that disabled people were somehow "cursed" by God, and therefore not fit to enter holy places.
Precisely.
That is one way of saying what dlown is saying just below you here.
And I agree with both of you.
Do you understand why that is?
dlowan wrote:Not uncommon, I believe, in ancient religions.
Eg, people with defects were not, I believe, allowed near the ancient olympics.
I suspect fear made people think they were cursed by god or somesuch.
Actually, it is common in animals to shun, or kill, deformed and injured members of their group.
Just an earlier stage of civilisation.
Lol...I know this is not what you want, Frank, but I thought i would give it to you anyway....heehee.....
This is exactly what I wanted, bunny...and exactly what I would have responded if the question has been propose TO me rather than BY me.
Do you understand why that is?
quote="Momma Angel"]Frank,
This isn't exactly what I thought you were going to come up with. Not sure how it relates to what we were talking about in the other thread.
Can you explain how you correlate the two so I can get a good understanding, please?[/quote]
It relates to almost everything I write in the Spirituality and Religion area, MA.
Remember
I am guessing that the Bible does not tell us anything about a God.
It is my guess that the Bible is essentially a history of the early Hebrews
with a mythology masquerading as a theology interspersed.
It is my guess that the "thou shalt" and "thou shalt not" sections of the Bible have absolutely nothing whatever to do with the wishes of a God
but merely reflect the biases and sensibilities of an ancient people.
I do not know if there is a God
or if there are no gods
but I am certainly willing to guess that the Bible would not help me head in either direction
because nearly as I can tell
the Bible does not tell us if there is a God; if there is a God, the Bible does not tell us anything about that God; and if there is a God, the Bible does not tell us anything about what pleases or offends It
or what It expects of humans.
I am guessing the "theology" of the Bible is phony
and that the god of the Bible is phony also.
And all the postings I make in this section
including this thread
are aimed at showing why I am guessing that way
and trying to convince others to guess that way also.
So that is the tie-in, MA.
I'm not so sure that 'they' thought they were cursed by God.
I think it's important to keep in mind that God has no flaws whatsoever. He is pure. So, it would reason that nothing impure can approach God. Just my thought.
Frank,
I don't know what Bible you read but mine says there is a God. Tells what He is all about and what He expects of us.
Intrepid wrote:Frank,
You seem to be using your own interpretation for the book of Leviticus. And, in particular the 21st chapter. This chapter deals with purity of the Priests. It was not for the general population, but for the priests. Purity of mind, body and soul was necessary for the Priests and this chapter deals with that. Seems simple enough.
So why does the god of the Bible think that people with disabilities or infirmities should not be priests?
Why does the god of the Bible say that people with disabilities or infirmities would, by their mere presence, profane holy places?
Quote:
It has already been pointed out that Jesus healed the sick, lepers, lame, blind, deaf etc. This doesn't appear to be that God penalized the handicapped and indeed welcomed them just as He does today.
Well...does Jesus say that people with infirmities would not "profane holy places?"
Quote:I am not attempting to change your mind or anything. I just think we should put this into a bit of perspective so that it does not appear that you are just creating another hate the Christian and God thread.
Not promoting hatred at all, Intrepid. I wouldn't do that.
Look at my post to MA...and that will tell you what I am doing.
Momma Angel wrote:I'm not so sure that 'they' thought they were cursed by God.
I think it's important to keep in mind that God has no flaws whatsoever. He is pure. So, it would reason that nothing impure can approach God. Just my thought.
I'm not sure I understand.
The question is: Why does the god of the Bible say that people with disabilities or infirmities will, by their mere presence, profane holy places?
Why does the god of the Bible think that?
Quote:Frank,
I don't know what Bible you read but mine says there is a God. Tells what He is all about and what He expects of us.
Yeah...mine all do too.
But re-read what I wrote.
I am not saying the Bibles do not claim to tell us there is a God...or what the God is like...or what pleases or offends the God...or what the God expects of humans...
...I am saying that the Bible is phony.
That is the reason I am raising the questions I am raising. To talk about whether it makes more sense to suppose A GOD said some of these things...or if it makes more sense to suppose ancient humans vented their biases and sensibilities by putting this nonsense in the mouth of a god they invented.
In some cultures like in Japan, families hid those with physical and mental defects, because they thought they would bring shame to the family.
Before the Kennedy's got involved with Special Olympics, the developmentally disabled were considered third-class citizens.
We can't expect the writers of the bible to have the sophistication and education of today, since some cultures still hide their disabiled child at home never to be seen by the public.
But this is another point about the bible god we know to be created by men. They were expressing cultural practices that were deemed to be right for their times.
Phoenix,
God does love us all equally. When God looks through us now He sees us as without sin as we are washed in the blood of Jesus. This is part of my Christian belief.
God loves everyone. He wants no one to suffer. His gift of salvation is free to everyone that accepts it. He makes no bones about that.
I guess Frank, I just don't see why you would give a flip about what you would probably call a fictional novel? Why this particular one?
What about The DaVinci Code? Lots of books written that are fictional and a lot of people think they are real.
Momma Angel wrote:
I guess Frank, I just don't see why you would give a flip about what you would probably call a fictional novel?
Because this particular fictional novel is helping to turn our planet into a cesspool.
That is why I give a flip about it.
Quote: Why this particular one?
Because this particular fictional novel is helping to turn our planet into a cesspool.
Quote:What about The DaVinci Code?
How many people have been slaughtered because of the stuff written in the DaVinci Code?
Quote:
Lots of books written that are fictional and a lot of people think they are real.
Okay...not sure of what that has to do with this...but you may be right.
Don't suppose you'd care to name three?
Momma Angel wrote: When God looks through us now He sees us as without sin as we are washed in the blood of Jesus.
Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson couldn't have expressed it any better...or worse.
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