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Why does the god of the Bible consider handicapped people...

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:09 pm
"It is like have a battle of wits with an anarmed man."

Seems you christians and your god treat the handicapped very poorly. LOL
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:09 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
No need; it's already been done. You're just not informed - about the bible.


Since you are such an informed expert. I look to you to educate me.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:10 pm
dlowan, I thought I already answered your question.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:10 pm
dlowan Wrote:

Quote:
On what basis, by the way, given that the bible is supposed to be divine revelation, do christians get to pick and choose which bits they decide are to be taken as a moral standard and which aren't?


I take it this is the question you mean? I am sorry, got sidetracked there for a few.

Do we get to pick and choose? Nope. The Bible is pretty clear about moral standards. They really don't need much interpretation.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:10 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
"It is like have a battle of wits with an anarmed man."

Seems you christians and your god treat the handicapped very poorly. LOL


Who is handicapped?
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:13 pm
Actually, CI has given you a number of instances of a murderous and vindictive god.

You did not refute the accuracy of his examples, but fell to (for some reason) demnouncing what you assume to have been his method of gathering them.

I have no idea if there are more, or less, examples of a vindictive and savage god than there are of a loving and merciful god, but, if the bible is, indeed, a divine revelation, how do you account for gods' behaviour in the light of his own commandments?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:15 pm
dlowan,

Well, it's a bit hard to take C.I.'s instances seriously when he states that because of hemorroids something or someone was wiped out.

What do you mean God's behavior in light of his own commandments?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:17 pm
dlowan, Between you and me, I have many more, but please don't tell these knowledgeable christians that understands the bible so well.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:20 pm
I'm not sure how to interpret the bible, so I'll leave it to the experts:

1 Samuel 5:6-9


6But the hand of he LORD was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed them, and smote them with emerods, even Ashdod and the coasts thereof.

7And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god.

8They sent therefore and gathered all the lords of the Philistines unto them, and said, What shall we do with the ark of the God of Israel? And they answered, Let the ark of the God of Israel be carried about unto Gath. And they carried the ark of the God of Israel about thither.

9And it was so, that, after they had carried it about, the hand of the LORD was against the city with a very great destruction: and he smote the men of the city, both small and great, and they had emerods in their secret parts.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:21 pm
Well, C.I., if you are so much more knowledgable than some of us Christians, why won't you share what you know? What omissions are you talking about?

We continually ask you questions and we get what? Someone with hemorroids took the ark? How do you expect to be taken seriously if you won't even back up what you state?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:23 pm
Emerods (emeroids). Hemorrhoids; tumors; raised up; swellings, protuberances /
Hebrew: 'ophel and techor. This word (disease) is mentioned eight times in ...
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:24 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
dlowan,

Well, it's a bit hard to take C.I.'s instances seriously when he states that because of hemorroids something or someone was wiped out.

What do you mean God's behavior in light of his own commandments?


Well, this god seems quite big on not killing, yet he does a whole heap of it, for example.

I believe you will find that god inflicted the haemmorhoids (damn spelling!) because he was pissed off at some folk. I doubt they actually killed he poor folk. Why not check CI's examples before lampooning them? Your god was big on boils and plagues of locusts and all that, and killing innocent babies cos Pharaoh wouldn't let the Jews go, you know. Bit of overkill, n'est ce pas?


And, Intrepid, can you answer my question about how come you guys get to pick and choose which parts of this divine revelation you will take seriously and which not?

Also, can you respond to my comment about the inaccuracy of your "why is there this huge bible thingy, which nobody else has, if it isn't a divine revelation or its myths are not somehow specialer than others" (which I assume is the intent behind the comment you made about the bible's bigness and such?)
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:29 pm
dlowan,

I thought I had answered your question about the Bible and moral standards.

Do we get to pick and choose? I told you nope, the Bible lays the standards out for man.

Can you reword that last paragraph? I am not sure what you are asking and don't want to misunderstand.

Well, as far as the boils and such, did you happen to read why these things happened? The ones that got the tumors C.I. was referring to had stolen the Ark of the Covenant. Do you know what the Ark of the Covenant was? I am not saying you don't know, I am just asking. Everytime it is pointed out that God has punished someone for something it is usually left out why. At least C.I., did say they took the ark; however, C.I., didn't make it clear he even knew what that was.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:30 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Well, C.I., if you are so much more knowledgable than some of us Christians, why won't you share what you know? What omissions are you talking about?

We continually ask you questions and we get what? Someone with hemorroids took the ark? How do you expect to be taken seriously if you won't even back up what you state?


Momma, how about debating properly.

Whether emerods are haemmorhoids (DAMN the spelling!) or not, they sound very nasty.

Why not address the issues CI has given you, and not attempt to avoid the issues raised by becoming personally abusive?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:36 pm
I keep telling these christians that I am NOT knowledgeable about the bible. The internet search engines are very easy to use, and they have loads of crap out there if one bothers to look.

I only use the bible to answer their questions. If they become personal, I just ignore them.

Since I'm the unarmed devil's advocate, they should be having fun too! LOL
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:37 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
dlowan,

I thought I had answered your question about the Bible and moral standards.

Do we get to pick and choose? I told you nope, the Bible lays the standards out for man.

Can you reword that last paragraph? I am not sure what you are asking and don't want to misunderstand.

Well, as far as the boils and such, did you happen to read why these things happened? The ones that got the tumors C.I. was referring to had stolen the Ark of the Covenant. Do you know what the Ark of the Covenant was? I am not saying you don't know, I am just asking. Everytime it is pointed out that God has punished someone for something it is usually left out why. At least C.I., did say they took the ark; however, C.I., didn't make it clear he even knew what that was.


Huh? Of course I know what the Ark was.


Just as one example of picking choosing, look at Intrepid;s words re Leviticus, which I quote.

Also, do you stone adulterers to death? The bible tells you to.


If not, why not?

The emerods thing, as with a number of other examples (eg killing all the first born of Egypt) is not raised as an example of a cruel and vindictive god because we do not understand that these are examples of punishment, they ar eraised as examples of grossly overly cruel punishment.


Had ALL the inhabitants of wherever it was chosen to take the Ark (why an omnipotent, omniscient god, who was supposed to be dwelling in the damn thing didn't just install a burglar alarm I don't know, but I digress...)? Did they ALL deserve to be punished?


Had the wee babes in Egypt done a damn thing?


What do YOU think is the character of your alleged god as revealed in these frightfulnesses?
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:38 pm
Who's becoming verbally abusive? I asked him a question and he doesn't answer me. I have asked him plenty of questions and he doesn't answer me.

He's the one that said he was rolling on the floor laughing, not me. Sounds like he's having a pretty good time at someone's expense doesn't it?

We have asked him repeatedly now what omissions is he talking about and he clams up! Fine, jump to his defense. I'm not ignoring any issues of his. He's the one doing the ignoring of issues.

Think about it dlowan, he chooses only the parts of the Bible he wants. Yet, we are accused of doing that. We try to give the full story. C.I. hits and runs and dodges.

Intrepid asked and I asked ~ what omissions are you talking about? What we get is ROLFLMAO because they don't know!

I am not getting verbally abusive, I am one that hates that.

What issues has C.I., given us? The same ones over and over again that we have answered every time he asks.

So, why don't YOU ask him why he won't back up his statement about the omissions?
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:41 pm
Quote:
How can we then reconcile God's apparent anger and harshness in the Old Testament and Jesus' Gentleness in the New Testament?

I think an answer might be in the types of people that He was dealing with at the time. During ancient times in the Old Testament, about the only thing that got people's attention was raw power. The most powerful warrior would conquer territories and become King. When a more powerful person came along, that King was killed and the new person became King. Authority was almost synonymous with power.

Given such a prevailing attitude, it makes sense that God didn't actually change. He simply presented a different view of Himself. He presented a spectacular Creation in Genesis, and He regularly "smote" whole armies in an instant to permit victory for His favored Tribes.

Consider a human father who finds the need to reprimand a young child. He might easily attempt to seem extremely harsh and powerful, in order to get necessary lessons across.

By the time that Jesus Walked on Earth, men's attitudes had advanced (a little). Jesus consistently demonstrated and taught Love and Generosity and Gentleness. We then had first-hand experience of the wonderful Lovingkindness of God. That Lovingkindness had always been there, even in the apparently harsh Old Testament God. But, during Old Testament times, such Gentleness would have been perceived as weakness, and God knew that. Therefore, even though He Loved His followers very much, it was not appropriate for Him to show it.

Jesus showed us that it was possible to display Lovingkindness without affecting the sense of incredible power that everyone knew that He had. Even during His trial and Crucifixion, most people seemed to believe that He could have instantly swept all that away, but that He knew that He had to suffer through those experiences in order to fulfill Old Testament prophecy.

Therefore, there is actually no distinction or difference between the attitude or the personality of the Old Testament God and the New Testament Jesus. Our One god just displayed different aspects of His personality as necessary for the people He was interacting with.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:42 pm
dlowan,

We have tried and tried to explain you cannot know the full character of God just by reading the OT. Yet, it is ignored. What would you have us do? Force it down your throat? That's not what we are about.

We answer your questions the best we can. What you and others choose to pay attention to is for you to decide.

But, it gets rather monotonous when we tell you the same answer over and over and yet you ask the same questions? The answer is not going to change.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 09:46 pm
Have a look at this Momma, for things the bible says that christians ignore, it is one of the funniest threads here:


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20038&start=0



Monger wrote:
I was flipping through a Bible & came to Leviticus 11, with its variety of swimming, walking, crawling & flapping abominations. 'Twas an interesting reread.

Some highlights:

We aren't actually supposed to be eating ostriches. I was a bit surprised by that, as I didn't think ostriches were too bountiful in Hebrew lands in those days, so much so that there were ostrich-avoidance rules in place.

God is really peeved at "unclean" animals, & takes his time calling them names like abomination & defiler.

Apparently no one noticed that 4-footed insects are mighty scarce, & that laws banning their consumption are a bit superfluous. Also, there is a distinction made between jumping bugs & non-jumping bugs. Some of the former are yummy, while the latter are abominations without exception (so if mom tries to sneak one into your dinner, pick it out, feed it to the dog & then stone her to death).

Special mention is made that you aught not to "boil young goats in their mother's milk" (Deut 17:21).

And let us never forget that God hates figs.

This stuff makes me wonder why Christians go after homosexuality more than other things banned in the Scriptures.

It also makes me quite hungry ...Mmmm, shrimp! Gotta go...

Note: I'd bet God is a shrimp lover too. Think about it, he fools us into thinking they're nasty so we don't eat them & they can flourish in the ocean ...Thousands of years of Christianity & Judaism might boil down to nothing more than an elaborate shrimp-saving conspiracy.




Monger (and Craven) REALLY know their bibles.






And if CI has been misbehaving, then I guess he is in danger of being smote with boils, emerods, death of his firstborn, burned up shrieking and screaming, being turned to a pillar of salt etc just like you, so behave! :wink:
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