1
   

The Dark Side of Faith

 
 
blatham
 
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:21 am
Quote:
The dark side of faith
By ROSA BROOKS
IT'S OFFICIAL: Too much religion may be a dangerous thing.

This is the implication of a study reported in the current issue of the Journal of Religion and Society, a publication of Creighton University's Center for the Study of Religion. The study, by evolutionary scientist Gregory S. Paul, looks at the correlation between levels of "popular religiosity" and various "quantifiable societal health" indicators in 18 prosperous democracies, including the United States.

Paul ranked societies based on the percentage of their population expressing absolute belief in God, the frequency of prayer reported by their citizens and their frequency of attendance at religious services. He then correlated this with data on rates of homicide, sexually transmitted disease, teen pregnancy, abortion and child mortality.

He found that the most religious democracies exhibited substantially higher degrees of social dysfunction than societies with larger percentages of atheists and agnostics. Of the nations studied, the U.S. ?- which has by far the largest percentage of people who take the Bible literally and express absolute belief in God (and the lowest percentage of atheists and agnostics) ?- also has by far the highest levels of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

This conclusion will come as no surprise to those who have long gnashed their teeth in frustration while listening to right-wing evangelical claims that secular liberals are weak on "values." Paul's study confirms globally what is already evident in the U.S.: When it comes to "values," if you look at facts rather than mere rhetoric, the substantially more secular blue states routinely leave the Bible Belt red states in the dust.

Murder rates? Six of the seven states with the highest 2003 homicide rates were "red" in the 2004 elections (Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina), while the deep blue Northeastern states had murder rates well below the national average. Infant mortality rates? Highest in the South and Southwest; lowest in New England. Divorce rates? Marriages break up far more in red states than in blue. Teen pregnancy rates? The same.

Of course, the red/blue divide is only an imperfect proxy for levels of religiosity. And while Paul's study found that the correlation between high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel religiosity, rather than the other way around.

Although correlation is not causation, Paul's study offers much food for thought. At a minimum, his findings suggest that contrary to popular belief, lack of religiosity does societies no particular harm. This should offer ammunition to those who maintain that religious belief is a purely private matter and that government should remain neutral, not only among religions but also between religion and lack of religion. It should also give a boost to critics of "faith-based" social services and abstinence-only disease and pregnancy prevention programs.

We shouldn't shy away from the possibility that too much religiosity may be socially dangerous. Secular, rationalist approaches to problem-solving emphasize uncertainty, evidence and perpetual reevaluation. Religious faith is inherently nonrational.

This in itself does not make religion worthless or dangerous. All humans hold nonrational beliefs, and some of these may have both individual and societal value. But historically, societies run into trouble when powerful religions become imperial and absolutist.

The claim that religion can have a dark side should not be news. Does anyone doubt that Islamic extremism is linked to the recent rise in international terrorism? And since the history of Christianity is every bit as blood-drenched as the history of Islam, why should we doubt that extremist forms of modern American Christianity have their own pernicious and measurable effects on national health and well-being?

Arguably, Paul's study invites us to conclude that the most serious threat humanity faces today is religious extremism: nonrational, absolutist belief systems that refuse to tolerate difference and dissent.

My prediction is that right-wing evangelicals will do their best to discredit Paul's substantive findings. But when they fail, they'll just shrug: So what if highly religious societies have more murders and disease than less religious societies? Remember the trials of Job? God likes to test the faithful.

To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry.

And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.
link
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,483 • Replies: 96
No top replies

 
Bob Lablob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:41 am
Yeah, that God is a real pisser, ain't He.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:46 am
Quote:
To the truly nonrational, even evidence that on its face undermines your beliefs can be twisted to support them. Absolutism means never having to say you're sorry.

And that, of course, is what makes it so very dangerous.


Great article, Blatham. And the last two sentences sum up the entire issue quite succinctly.


Quote:
And while Paul's study found that the correlation between high degrees of religiosity and high degrees of social dysfunction appears robust, it could be that high levels of social dysfunction fuel religiosity, rather than the other way around.


I think that this "chicken and egg" issue needs to be explored more thoroughly. I have always suspected (very unscientifically, to be sure, but based on lifelong observation) that the more deprived and dysfunctional the community, the larger and more rigidly fundamental the congregations in the area.

I have experienced over time, that many people who have difficulty with coming to grips in managing their lives, will turn to a structured form of religion for comfort. Apparently the structure, and absoluteness that the religion offers, enables the person to find solace, outside of themselves, in an otherwise chaotic life.

I am well aware of the groups that many proselytizing groups target: recovering alcoholics, drug addicts, people with mental health problems, youngsters (especially of college age) grappling with difficulties of attaining maturity.

In my experience, the majority of self-directed, happy, fulfilled, people do not need or desire an all encompassing outside force, the kind that a rigidly based religion offers, to direct their lives.

I am interested in the thoughts of other members of this group.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:51 am
Thanks for posting that, blatham.

The people who agree with the article, as I do, have seen the light all along; however, the religious fanatics are going to scream blasphemy and burn you at the stake for your sin of false communication.
0 Replies
 
Bob Lablob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:52 am
Just how many Gods are there?

Which God is the best God?

How did He get picked as the best God?

Does God get paid?

Who the Hell signs His paycheck?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 09:51 am
gustavratzenhofer wrote:
Thanks for posting that, blatham.

The people who agree with the article, as I do, have seen the light all along; however, the religious fanatics are going to scream blasphemy and burn you at the stake for your sin of false communication.


gus

I know. Please pray for me.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 10:18 am
phoenix

Re chicken and egg... I doubt that religious practice or membership (of the absolutist sort alluded to) brings about a psychic need or preference for absolutist answers/worldview any moreso than joining a Kirby vacuum-cleaner sales team will bring about poverty, low ethics, and a fondness for crude humor. I suspect it is personality structure which finds a comfortable home in such a milieu.

Clearly, the times can matter. I do not see much important difference between fundamentalist Islam, fundamentalist Judaism, fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Hinduism, etc, where by 'fundamentalist' we mean extremist or absolutist...each of these (and why not include extremist nationalism and severe ethnic/racial division) seem a common response to 'modernity' or change.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 11:31 am
blatham wrote:
I suspect it is personality structure which finds a comfortable home in such a milieu.


I agree. But then again, one might extrapolate that there are certain personality types that are statistically more likely to find comfort in the sort of social milieu that would foster adherence to a fundamentalist type religion.

One must also factor in the results of parenting, and again it is a chicken and egg situation. Children who are brought up in rigidly religious homes have a greater tendency to adhere to those beliefs than those who are taught from birth to rely on their own intellect and rational judgements.
On the other hand, some children who are raised in more secular homes, may find that the necessity of more intense intellectual judgement too threatening, and join a rigidly fundamentalist group in adulthood.

The thing is, that there are children who have the mental acumen to pull away from a religious system that is intellectually stifling. (CDK is a prime example of this phenomenon). So one must really take genetics, environment, and the strength of will of each person.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 12:48 pm
Quote:
(CDK is a prime example of this phenomenon).


True. But he is into some very odd stuff with farm animals.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 07:21 pm
Bob Lablob wrote:
Just how many Gods are there?

Which God is the best God?

How did He get picked as the best God?

Does God get paid?

Who the Hell signs His paycheck?



one, but he suffers from a multiple personality disorder

see answer above

see answer above

yes

the pope, the vatican is the only organized religion with that kind if cash
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 10:00 pm
Reminds me that my wife's professor who taught about substance abuse and addiction had her primary study as sexual fetishism. She moved to Lubbock, TX (a highly religious town) because that's where the fetishists were. Apparently there's quite the S&M underground society in Lubbock. Go figure.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Oct, 2005 11:48 pm
bm

Interesting!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2005 09:31 am
DrewDad wrote:
Reminds me that my wife's professor who taught about substance abuse and addiction had her primary study as sexual fetishism. She moved to Lubbock, TX (a highly religious town) because that's where the fetishists were. Apparently there's quite the S&M underground society in Lubbock. Go figure.


There ain't, I think, many questions more interesting than how and why control of sexual behaviors gets so mixed in with religious proscriptions. As true with Osama's crowd as it is with Dobson's or the Pope's crowd.

The head-banging, teeth-gnashing thing of it is that where these two things get mixed together then form or appearance trumps reality...unwanted pregnancies, spread of disease, etc are no longer the real focus of attention, and actual solutions or ameliorative strategies fall by the wayside.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 11:13 am
Bookmark
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:32 pm
I suspect that the less educated and well off you are, the more you are likely to be attracted by godism.

I likewise suspect that the godism is an artefact of the educational and economic ills, rather than a primary cause of them.

Where fundamentalist christianity and islam, eg, may become part of the problem, and help to cement the disadvantage, is their stupid dislike of birth control and rational discussion of sex.

Also, both (and other religions, too) have acted to cement in disadvantage and lack of education for women (christianity less so now).
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:38 pm
I have observed that in fundamentalist (and sometimes more mainstream) sects that derive from Abrahamic traditions, the consonant thread that runs through all of them is the subjugation of women (to a greater or lesser extent), and the control of reproduction.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:41 pm
Oh, I hate this damn edit thing, I was gonna add to my post:

Edit: Oh, your article says that.


Ach, dogma, whether religious, communist, neocon, fascist etc sucks.

I agree with the bit that talks about accepting uncertainty as being healthy and helpful.

Down with dear based control systems!



Yes, Phoenix, these middle eastern desert cults are a pain that way!


But, is it particular to them?


What about Hinduism, eg?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:45 pm
dlowan wrote:
What about Hinduism, eg?


Since I do not know very much about Hinduism or other eastern religions, I would not attempt to offer an opinion on those religions.
0 Replies
 
Bob Lablob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 04:53 pm
One day, many freaking moons ago, some hairy goon walked out of his cave just in time to see lightning strike a tree and set it on fire.

The caveman -who's name was Earl- screamed, "GODDAM!"

Thus was God born and He was cursed by man even then.

Earl would have s**t his pants but he didn't have pants so he just s**t his furry robe thingy and walked back into his cave and said to his mate -who's name was Edna- , "Edna honey, I need a damn Xanax. God just blew up a tree and scared the s**t out of me."

Edna looked at Earl and said, "Earl, you moron. Trees don't just blow up, there is no God and Xanax won't be invented for another few hundred thousand years"

Earl, staring dejectedly down at the floor muttered, "....goddamit..."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Oct, 2005 05:39 pm
Do you work for Upjohn pharmaceutical company, Bob? Or just have an affinity for Xanax?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » The Dark Side of Faith
Copyright © 2026 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/16/2026 at 11:36:41