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Is the Politics Forum Winding Down?

 
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 01:20 pm
aw, shucks.... Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 04:27 pm
parados wrote:
It is the slow cycle in politics - elections are over and new ones are a little ways ahead.

Yep, though there are plenty of elections elsewhere. But if its not about the US, a thread will by nature only have a selected few taking part.

parados wrote:
We are too familiar with the arguments of the other side and realize there is no basis to find agreement.

Yep. See below.

parados wrote:
We are too familiar with the arguments of posters on the other side and don't see any point in a thread that you could write both sides yourself. [Air America is doing badly. No, it isn't, Yes, it is, just look at my selective statistics. No, look at my selective statistics.]

What is the point of rebutting recycled crap that you have rebutted with facts 10 times or 100 times already?

Yep. I got to the point where I was just reposting the stuff I'd looked up and sorted out a year, or two years ago, whenever the same hoary tales came up. Until I realised I dont particularly enjoy playing policeman and spending my time nipping ever the same duds in the bud.

Having to follow and map the news of the day as part of my work now, I find myself happily focusing more on European and post-Soviet news again. I happily find it to be much more multi-dimensional, multi-polar and thematically varied than US politics as I've gotten to know it here, which seems to be balled together in perhaps eight main different themes of contention, at most, which are ever repeated. But I know that most all the stories I'm now again following wouldnt raise more than a squeak of interest here, so why bother.

In general, seeing most posts or threads that I thought were really good or fascinating fall flat, while the odd time I'm triggered into some tired old antagonism on a cons-vs-libs thread yields combustible discussion, made me want to give up, already way before I finally more or less actually succeeded in doing so.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 04:33 pm
Someone said there were less conservatives than there used to be; I havent noticed that. Its always been a minority, if a loud one, and they seem more prone to single-mindedly focusing on the Politics threads, wandering elsewhere less, which increases their relative impact.

I did observe some of the posters I've always thought most solid and thoughtful retreating from the fray (hi Soz), which meant an equally fewer number of reasons to stay around myself. Thomas is holding the fort more than anyone, which just shows you again its not a question of political colour.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 04:46 pm
Recently, I was kind of proud of this thread tho: What would you vote if you lived in ...?. Good one.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 07:01 pm
parados wrote:
Pick your favorite:

We are too familiar with the arguments of the other side and realize there is no basis to find agreement.

We are too familiar with the arguments of posters on the other side and don't see any point in a thread that you could write both sides yourself. [Air America is doing badly. No, it isn't, Yes, it is, just look at my selective statistics. No, look at my selective statistics.]

What is the point of rebutting recycled crap that you have rebutted with facts 10 times or 100 times already? (That brick wall is looking more and more inviting.)


No matter what the issue may be in the Politics threads, it always devolves almost instantaneously to Good v Evil--and the teams have been etched in stone for years. We can all anticipate what everyone will say. Why bother?

Just suit up and take your positions. We'll pretend we actually played the game.

I didn't plan to curtail my posting; I just come here and look around and like Parados said--before I even post, I can predict the responses....and then it just spirals down. Even if I'm not involved in the disagreement--they aren't even based on anything worth talking about. I mean, I felt like that during Shiavo. Same ole same ole with a different thread title. I'm glad other people are still enjoying it. I just don't see how.

I never did a count, but I'd be surprised if there weren't less conservatives. We certainly lose most that show up. I think the board will likely be politically homogenous in the near future.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Sep, 2005 10:04 pm
Chrissee wrote:
Maybe the forum is declining is because half of what is posted here are right-wing lies posted ad nauseum in hopes that by repeating the lies enough times, they will become true. They won't.


What else you want to know, Georgeob?

I have seen some stellar discussions amongst what Thomas calls "the usual suspects", but mostly, something happens to kill the discussions. You can usually tell by the name of the most recent poster whether it's worth the effort of a mouse click to drop in.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 02:04 am
roger wrote:
I have seen some stellar discussions amongst what Thomas calls "the usual suspects", but mostly, something happens to kill the discussions. You can usually tell by the name of the most recent poster whether it's worth the effort of a mouse click to drop in.

On Usenet, a popular remedy against this is the so-called kill file. When some posters are seriously getting on the nerves of user X, he puts their names in his kill file. X's computer will then stop displaying any post by any poster in that file. (Except when they are quoted by a poster who's not on the list.) The perception on Usenet is that the introduction of kill files did not only reduce the direct stress from reading annoying noise makers, it also reduced the amplification of the noise by 'good' posters who got distracted, making the thread all about the noise maker and no longer about the subject. (On the other hand, killfiles didn't solve the predictability problem.)

Would something like this help on A2K too?
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 02:11 am
Thomas wrote:

Would something like this help on A2K too?


Yup! It's been planned for a while, but phpBB had also planned to release an ignore feature in 3.0.

Now, with phpBB's development in its aimless state (several years past the anticipated release of their next version, lead developer just quit) I may end up creating something for this one.

So many features, so little time. That one's an important one though.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 02:13 am
Craven de Kere wrote:
So many features, so little time. That one's an important one though.

I understand -- and I didn't mean to assign homework to you. Smile
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 03:02 am
nimh wrote:
parados wrote:
It is the slow cycle in politics - elections are over and new ones are a little ways ahead.

Yep, though there are plenty of elections elsewhere. But if its not about the US, a thread will by nature only have a selected few taking part.

parados wrote:
We are too familiar with the arguments of the other side and realize there is no basis to find agreement.

Yep. See below.

parados wrote:
We are too familiar with the arguments of posters on the other side and don't see any point in a thread that you could write both sides yourself. [Air America is doing badly. No, it isn't, Yes, it is, just look at my selective statistics. No, look at my selective statistics.]

What is the point of rebutting recycled crap that you have rebutted with facts 10 times or 100 times already?

Yep. I got to the point where I was just reposting the stuff I'd looked up and sorted out a year, or two years ago, whenever the same hoary tales came up. Until I realised I dont particularly enjoy playing policeman and spending my time nipping ever the same duds in the bud.

Having to follow and map the news of the day as part of my work now, I find myself happily focusing more on European and post-Soviet news again. I happily find it to be much more multi-dimensional, multi-polar and thematically varied than US politics as I've gotten to know it here, which seems to be balled together in perhaps eight main different themes of contention, at most, which are ever repeated. But I know that most all the stories I'm now again following wouldnt raise more than a squeak of interest here, so why bother.

In general, seeing most posts or threads that I thought were really good or fascinating fall flat, while the odd time I'm triggered into some tired old antagonism on a cons-vs-libs thread yields combustible discussion, made me want to give up, already way before I finally more or less actually succeeded in doing so.



Nimh: I always check your political threads, and read them.



I used to comment more, but with a new job, and decreasing interest in A2k (and the net) generally, I have been more of a read and runner, (except for odd bursts, for various reasons) but I, and many others I am sure, always keep up with your threads, and your cool comments on "hot" threads.

I think many non Americans, and many of the less parochial Americans, read them too.

We must try and comment more, since you seem discouraged.

We Ozzians have formed a kind of political home in a few threads Msolga started, so we feel able to discuss our politics.


I LOVE hearing about Europe.


It is just that I have so much work related reading to do right now, that I am on read/comment overload, and I tend to come to play.
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 03:57 am
I should comment more to. I ofthen fail to respond to interesting posts about stuff I havent read much about before because I am unable to come up with anything to add. Thus I ofthen end up replying instead to knee jerk postings on worn out topics.

Also, while I'm not looking to shift the blame here, your inclination to cover every aspect of the issue, in depth, and from every conceivable perspective tends to leave successive posts redundant.

I could try to add "Interesting" or "Good post" every once in a while, though I tend to feel silly doing it.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 04:28 am
Hmm, how would a 'kill file' foster dialogue? Then you will read a thread and half of it won't make sense, because you won't know what people are responding to... anyway, i guess i just wouldn't ever use such a feature.

i stopped posting when i realized than any topic - and i mean ANY - it could be famine in Niger or anything whatsoever - will be in the end twisted into democrats versus republicans debate. as if nothing else existed in this world, but the american political divide.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 05:14 am
Lash wrote:
I never did a count, but I'd be surprised if there weren't less conservatives. We certainly lose most that show up. I think the board will likely be politically homogenous in the near future.

Not likely. Most liberals and leftists who were posting, say, two years ago have left too, either in disappointment or just cause they moved on. Only the hardened usual suspects stay, on either side - and every once in a while, one of them drops out too, and some other incidental poster evolves into a usual suspect. Either way, there's always new ones again too. I'd be surprised if the proportion changes much.

Personally I had the feeling that though there werent probably any more conservatives, they made up a larger proportion of posts for a long time after the US elections. And the more scornful, attack-mode liberals did too. Probably because many of the milder-mannered moderates on the board moved on to other topics and pre-occupations once the immediacy of the elections disappeared.

I'd expected things to get milder after the elections myself, but Craven explained perfectly why it was only logical that the opposite happened. Cant find his post back, but basically his point was that when, after the subject-intense, wide-audience campaign period, the discourse shrinks back to the limited audience of only the more hardened political geeks and partisans focusing on a more narrow scope of subjects of the day, debate is likely to become more, not less unpleasant.

In any case, on the count of the board becoming "politically homogenous in the near future", one must wonder at the world view that would consider, say, the views of Squinney and Blatham, Soz and me, and Thomas and Panzade, for example, to constitute homogenity. None of them would vote Bush, thats true, but otherwise there's not all that much common ground between the lot, I'd say.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 05:22 am
Einherjar wrote:
IAlso, while I'm not looking to shift the blame here, your inclination to cover every aspect of the issue, in depth, and from every conceivable perspective tends to leave successive posts redundant.

I could try to add "Interesting" or "Good post" every once in a while, though I tend to feel silly doing it.

LOL! + Embarrassed

dagmaraka wrote:
Hmm, how would a 'kill file' foster dialogue? Then you will read a thread and half of it won't make sense, because you won't know what people are responding to... anyway, i guess i just wouldn't ever use such a feature.

I'd love a feature like that. The chances of discussion being sidetracked in the usual rancorous to-and-fro would really diminish. Of course you wouldnt be able anymore to understand the posts that reply to the posters in your kill file, but those would likely only be part of that to-and-fro anyway

dagmaraka wrote:
i stopped posting when i realized than any topic - and i mean ANY - it could be famine in Niger or anything whatsoever - will be in the end twisted into democrats versus republicans debate. as if nothing else existed in this world, but the american political divide.

Yes! Hear, hear!

Uhm ... now I feel silly saying that :wink:
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 06:06 am
"dagmaraka wrote:
i stopped posting when i realized than any topic - and i mean ANY - it could be famine in Niger or anything whatsoever - will be in the end twisted into democrats versus republicans debate. as if nothing else existed in this world, but the american political divide.

Yes! Hear, hear! "


Yes! Yes! Hear hear hear hear


Ain't silly, deserved to be heard heard twice twice.

Uhm ... now I feel silly saying that
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 06:23 am
Yes, hear hear!

.. & sometimes you just feel like being part of an stimulating discussion, only to find someone trying drag you into a fight because of something you've said. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 08:26 am
"Squinney and Blatham, Soz and me, and Thomas ..."

All considered liberal re American politics. On this board, re political threads, that's homogenous.

Certainly, among you, there may be nuances of difference, but I find it hard to believe that you'd attempt to negate the glaring, basic similarity.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 08:45 am
I am not now, nor have I ever been, homogenous.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 08:50 am
Chrissee wrote:
Maybe the forum is declining is because half of what is posted here are right-wing lies posted ad nauseum in hopes that by repeating the lies enough times, they will become true. They won't.



What drives me away from the political forum is behavior such as this where it is continually said that anything said by a supporter of George Bush or anyone in the Republican party is a lie. There are several truths which are overlooked; however, there are certain persons who have no desire to hear them.

Add to this the absurd accusations hurled from certain individuals towards the Republicans and then do yourself a favor and count through the posts in the majority of topics listed in the political threads, and notice that there is little (no) truth to the idea that "half of what is posted here are right-wing lies". This is clearly wrong since far less than half the posts are made from the right-wing individuals so the idea of half the responses being lies from the right wing says that anything said by a Bush supporter is a lie and that according to you Chrissee, half of all posts are from his supporters, a count through proves that to be wrong.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Sep, 2005 08:52 am
Sturgis, I'm curious -- what brought you TO the politics forum? That's the main place you post (I think?) and you've only been here a couple of months, curious about why you're here. (Happy to have you! But in terms of "winding down", seems like we are getting new people all the time...)
0 Replies
 
 

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