god loves man, loves man not god.

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

well I believe in good......

but thats not because I have to employ faith to make me believe in good.

Good seems to me live enhancing, joyful, bloody obvious really. Or at least the amerlioration of the bad things.

Faith means (to me) the ability to suspend disbelief and critical reasoning. Thats not to say my way is better than yours. just that the two thought processes are quite different and in fact mutually exclusive.

But at the level of the mundane, i.e. material things, my way works better than yours !

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I asked if there were scientific proof, do you think everyone would believe it? A simple yes or no is all I was looking for.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
well I believe in good......

but thats not because I have to employ faith to make me believe in good.

Good seems to me live enhancing, joyful, bloody obvious really. Or at least the amerlioration of the bad things.

Faith means (to me) the ability to suspend disbelief and critical reasoning. Thats not to say my way is better than yours. just that the two thought processes are quite different and in fact mutually exclusive.

But at the level of the mundane, i.e. material things, my way works better than yours !

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I asked if there were scientific proof, do you think everyone would believe it? A simple yes or no is all I was looking for.

If there were "scientific proof" nobody would have to "believe" it...they would KNOW it.

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Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

If there were "scientific proof" nobody would have to "believe" it...they would KNOW it.

But would they accept it was my question.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I asked if there were scientific proof, do you think everyone would believe it? A simple yes or no is all I was looking for.

Thats true i didnt answer your question. used the typical ploy of answering the question i would like asked.... Smile

No not everyone. There will always be some contrarians. And some legitimately doing research trying to disprove the scientific theory of the divinity of Christ.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:
If there were "scientific proof" nobody would have to "believe" it...they would KNOW it.

But would they accept it was my question.

It really is inappropriate to ask that question in that form...because you would be asking for speculation for which there is no foundation. If you were to ask a person: "If there were scientific proof of the existence of GOD...would you accept it?"...

...you might get an answer that would make some sense.

Let me give you mine.

Frankly...I would accept "scientific proof" of almost anything that science can prove. I would have to note, however, that science almost never claims to "prove" anything...excpet the most mundane of things. To expect that there could be "scientific proof" of something as complicated as "the existence of GOD" is a hypothetical gone ape, in my opinion.

But my answer reduces to: YES.

Now a question for you, MA:

If there were scientific proof that there are no gods...would YOU "accept" it?

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Frank,

Since I have said time and time again that since old science has now been proven by new science to be incorrect, why should I believe it? Was science back then wrong or is science today wrong?

THIS is definitely something I don't KNOW.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

Since I have said time and time again that since old science has now been proven by new science to be incorrect, why should I believe it?

Well..that is probably because you are supposing that science is "proving" something...when it isn't.

Most of the stuff you are assuming has now "been proven by new science to be incorrect" is probably theories or hypotheses that have been tested and now have been shown to be incorrect.

Nothing that has ever truly been "proven"...has ever been shown to be wrong. One cannot "prove" something that is wrong...not even science. So...the matters that have now been shown to be incorrect...were not "proven" originally.

(I read to people in a nursing home once a week. This week...during our discussion about science, I cautioned them not to take science [doctors especially] as absolute. I called their attention to the fact that doctors, during our lifetime, lectured us on the benefits of a "good breakfast"...a couple of eggs, bacon, toast heaped with delicious, healthful butter, and a large glass of creamy milk was often suggested. And they were all wet!)

Quote:

Was science back then wrong or is science today wrong?

More than likely...both. It was wrong (its hypotheses and theories) were wrong back then...and probably many of its current hypotheses and theories are wrong today. But they will continue to work on it.

Quote:

THIS is definitely something I don't KNOW.

Yeah...but you offered a hypothetical...and were very adamentt about having it answered.

You said:

Quote:

I'm not sure that really answers my question. I asked if there were scientific proof, do you think everyone would believe it? A simple yes or no is all I was looking for.

You then qualified it by writing:

Quote:

But would they accept it was my question.

Well...I am now asking you: IF THERE WERE SCIENTIFIC PROOF that there are no gods...would you "accept" it?

As you said...a simple YES or NO will do.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

Since I have said time and time again that since old science has now been proven by new science to be incorrect, why should I believe it? Was science back then wrong or is science today wrong?

THIS is definitely something I don't KNOW.

Science back then was "If she floats in water then she's a witch and must be burned!" But your point is valid in that there will undoubtedly be instances where future science will "correct" mistakes made by current science. However, if there was enough actual evidence for science to make any kind of conjecture about the existance of god, there would be little point in 'faith'. So perhaps a better question to ask is, If proof was given one way or the other, would your faith in what you've believed in the past survive intact?

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Frank,

No, I would not believe it because science appears to be flawed and man definitely is flawed.

It is the non-believers that keep saying scientific proof. I guess you need to be a little more clear on just what you mean by that.

Ok, ....future science will "correct" mistakes made by current science. Then, science is not so absolute afterall? So, what constitutes scientific proof?

And my faith survive intact Questioner? Of that I have no doubts whatsoever. It would survive and probably be even stronger than it is today because I do not rely on man's logic and science in this. I have faith.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank,

No, I would not believe it because science appears to be flawed and man definitely is flawed.

It is the non-believers that keep saying scientific proof. I guess you need to be a little more clear on just what you mean by that.

Ok, ....future science will "correct" mistakes made by current science. Then, science is not so absolute afterall? So, what constitutes scientific proof?

And my faith survive intact Questioner? Of that I have no doubts whatsoever. It would survive and probably be even stronger than it is today because I do not rely on man's logic and science in this. I have faith.

So...even if science were able to "prove" there were no gods...you would not accept it!

Well...that is as big an argument for my contention that "faith" is little more than stone-headedness! :wink:

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Frank Apisa wrote:

So...even if science were able to "prove" there were no gods...you would not accept it!

Well...that is as big an argument for my contention that "faith" is little more than stone-headedness! :wink:

Not entirely fair Frank. She did make a good point that Science can tend to contradict itself over time. And what kind of "faith" would it be if you just gave up? The bible teaches that the devil uses all kinds of tricks to throw christians off course, so it's allowed for the possibility that faith could be brought into serious question.

They thought of everything. Confused

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Questioner,

Thanx. I'm glad you can understand that much about me. I do appreciate you pointing that out to Frank.

Frank, since I KNOW science makes mistakes and I KNOW (yes, I KNOW) that God is perfect, I KNOW I am making the right choice on this one.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Questioner,

Thanx. I'm glad you can understand that much about me. I do appreciate you pointing that out to Frank.

Frank, since I KNOW science makes mistakes and I KNOW (yes, I KNOW) that God is perfect,

How do you KNOW there is a God...and how do you KNOW the God is perfect?

In any case...your hypothetical had the element "IF SCIENCE PROVED..."

We had to work with that hypothetical.

It appears you are not able to deal with your own hypothetical as presented...even though you just about insisted that Steve do so.

Fear of a god is a very difficult thing to deal with.

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Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:

How do you KNOW there is a God...and how do you KNOW the God is perfect?

In any case...your hypothetical had the element "IF SCIENCE PROVED..."

We had to work with that hypothetical.

It appears you are not able to deal with your own hypothetical as presented...even though you just about insisted that Steve do so.

Fear of a god is a very difficult thing to deal with.

For the KNOW part, go back and read those definitions. My answer stands now and forever.

Yes, we worked with a hypothetical. If I believe science is flawed Frank, why would I believe it proves anything? That just seems like common sense to me.

And yes, a fear of God must be a very difficult thing to deal with. I would respectfully suggest to those that fear Him in that way should stop railing against Him and actually trying talking to Him instead of blaming Him for everything they don't like about their lives. Personally, I love the guy!

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:
How do you KNOW there is a God...and how do you KNOW the God is perfect?

In any case...your hypothetical had the element "IF SCIENCE PROVED..."

We had to work with that hypothetical.

It appears you are not able to deal with your own hypothetical as presented...even though you just about insisted that Steve do so.

Fear of a god is a very difficult thing to deal with.

For the KNOW part, go back and read those definitions. My answer stands now and forever.

How do you KNOW there is a god...and how do you KNOW the god is perfect?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:
How do you KNOW there is a God...and how do you KNOW the God is perfect?

In any case...your hypothetical had the element "IF SCIENCE PROVED..."

We had to work with that hypothetical.

It appears you are not able to deal with your own hypothetical as presented...even though you just about insisted that Steve do so.

Fear of a god is a very difficult thing to deal with.

For the KNOW part, go back and read those definitions. My answer stands now and forever.

How do you KNOW there is a god...and how do you KNOW the god is perfect?

Frank,

Go back and read the definitions of know.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Frank Apisa Wrote:

Quote:
How do you KNOW there is a God...and how do you KNOW the God is perfect?

In any case...your hypothetical had the element "IF SCIENCE PROVED..."

We had to work with that hypothetical.

It appears you are not able to deal with your own hypothetical as presented...even though you just about insisted that Steve do so.

Fear of a god is a very difficult thing to deal with.

For the KNOW part, go back and read those definitions. My answer stands now and forever.

How do you KNOW there is a god...and how do you KNOW the god is perfect?

Frank,

Go back and read the definitions of know.

MA...how do you KNOW there is a god...and how do you KNOW the god is perfect?

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We are about to do battle, MA.

Please answer the question so that the battle can begin.

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Frank Apisa wrote:

We are about to do battle, MA.

Please answer the question so that the battle can begin.

Frank,

Hang on. I am putting on my armor and I have gained a few pounds. You ever try squeezing into this stuff?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
We are about to do battle, MA.

Please answer the question so that the battle can begin.

Frank,

Hang on. I am putting on my armor and I have gained a few pounds. You ever try squeezing into this stuff?

Nope. Don't need it!

Hope you answer the question soon as you get it on.

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god loves man, loves man not god.

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