"I COULD care less" or "I COULDN'T care less" Which is it?

I couldn't care less is not formal.

saying "I could care less" is just laziness, and as david said, inattention on the speakers part,

More importantly, what's all this "head over heels" malarky?

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I couldn't care less is not formal.

saying "I could care less" is just laziness, and as david said, inattention on the speakers part,

More importantly, what's all this "head over heels" malarky?

David knows virtually nothing when it comes to language and how it works, Chai.

"I could care less" is not laziness.
The laziness comes from people who simply repeat unwarranted assumptions about a very complex subject.

David, have you ever realized how oddly your posts read
to people who don't speak the same dialect of English that you do?

Very peculiar effect indeed.

ok, here's an expression I grew up with...."not for nothin"

It's like you could say any damn thing you pleased, but if "not for nothin" preceeded it, it was cool...

here's the definition from urban dictionary, maybe it explains it better....

1. not for nothing
Phrase meaning "what I'm about to say is important." That is "I'm not saying this for my health"....

Generally said as "Not f'nuthin', but...."

NYC/East Coast slang of the caucasian working class (particularly Italians)...

"Not for nothing, but your mom has the best rack I've seen in years...."


That's another great one....doing this for my health..

I'm not doin' this for my health you know.

so I Googled "Danforth River" but that was not recognized.

ofen saying

I dunno, I don't have any problems understanding him.

He's said enough times he capable of writing correctly,
but chooses not to, so I can respect that.

Now, if one of these text speak kids start with that,
it looks strange because I'm not so sure they would know how
to properly write something out.

David, you've provided a great example.

ofen saying

From the context, I suspect the word you mean is often.
Where I come from, you hear the t when often is said.
"ofen" is your phonetic form of often, but it's not ours.
I had to re-read it a couple of times to sort it out.

Using the standard spellings makes it easier for English speakers/readers everywhere.

(for my location - try googling ....... shimmy danforth ...... the first hit on google.ca gives you the information about where Setanta and I will be tonight)

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Using the standard spellings makes it easier for English speakers/readers everywhere.

It DOES.
This is true, but it also perpetuates the defective paradime.
It is an offense against the children
and their grandchildren, if thay adopt the error.
Teaching them non-fonetic, traditional spelling is an abuse;
break the chain of abuse !

It DOES.
This is true, but it also perpetuates the defective paradime.
It is an offense against the children
and their grandchildren, if thay adopt the error.
Teaching them non-fonetic, traditional spelling is an abuse;
break the chain of abuse !

OmSigDAVID wrote:

It DOES.
This is true, but it also perpetuates the defective paradime.
It is an offense against the children
and their grandchildren, if thay adopt the error.
Teaching them non-fonetic, traditional spelling is an abuse;
break the chain of abuse !

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Just making up your own nonsense isn't any better for them.

I neither can be, nor desire to be, the final authority
on deciding how the completed, polished product will be.
In time, fonetic lexicografers will write new dictionaries
after meticulous analysis of the best choices available.
My humble efforts r only to help get the ball rolling in the first place
and make it not quite as bad as it was.
People who r texting r carrying most of the weight (wate) propagating this.

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Incidentally, you asked elsewhere how you can emphasize words without using your horrid font sizes and bold caps and I didn't answer, but here's as good as anywhere.

Use italics. You aren't the only person who has found a need to emphasize something before but you don't see the rest of us doing it your retarded way.

Ever time I see you using huge fonts I vote it down to get the eyesore off the page and don't bother to read it. I imagine there are a lot of others who don't begin to take you seriously either because of it as well and wish you'd consider writing more legibly.

Please know that I did not intentionally do something that I deemed to be horrid.
Its only that I perceived the available choices in size & color of font to be helpful in expressing my ideas,
by focusing on and stressing some key words over others that were less important.
I thought that coud be of particular value in a long post.
I inferred, apparently in error, that since u put the tools into our hands,
that we had your permission to use them.

I am certain that other people have chosen to ignore my posts
which have used those means of emphasis; thay said so.
In any case, I must respect your prohibition because this website is your property.

I offer my apology for having offended u.





David

"could care less"
by Mark Israel

[This is a fast-access FAQ excerpt.]

The idiom "couldn't care less", meaning "doesn't care at all"
(the meaning in full is "cares so little that he couldn't possibly
care less"), originated in Britain around 1940. "Could care less",
which is used with the same meaning, developed in the U.S. around
1960. We get disputes about whether the latter was originally a
mis-hearing of the former; whether it was originally ironic; or
whether it arose from uses where the negative element was separated
from "could" ("None of these writers could care less..."). Henry
Churchyard believes that this sentence by Jane Austen may be
pertinent: "You know nothing and you care less, as people say."
(Mansfield Park (1815), Chapter 29) Meaning-saving elaborations
have also been suggested: "As if I could care less!"; "I could care
less, but I'd have to try"; "If I cared even one iota -- which I
don't --, then I could care less."

Recently encountered has been "could give a damn", used in the
sense "couldn't give a damn".

An earlier transition in which "not" was dropped was the one that
gave us "but" in the sense of "only". "I will not say but one
word", where "but" meant "(anything) except", became "I will say but
one word."

Other idioms that say the opposite of what they mean include:
"head over heels" (which could mean turning cartwheels, i.e. "head
over heels over head over heels", but is also used to mean "upside-
down", i.e. "heels over head"); "Don't sneeze more than you can
help" (meaning "more than you cannot help"; "help" here means
"prevent"); "It's hard to open, much less acknowledge, the letters"
(where "less" means "harder", i.e. "more"); "I shouldn't wonder if
it didn't rain"; "I miss not seeing you"; and "I turned my life
around 360 degrees" -- not to mention undisputedly ironic phrases
such as "fat chance", "Thanks a *lot*", and "I should worry".

"could care less"
by Mark Israel

[This is a fast-access FAQ excerpt.]

The idiom "couldn't care less", meaning "doesn't care at all"
(the meaning in full is "cares so little that he couldn't possibly
care less"), originated in Britain around 1940. "Could care less",
which is used with the same meaning, developed in the U.S. around
1960. We get disputes about whether the latter was originally a
mis-hearing of the former; whether it was originally ironic; or
whether it arose from uses where the negative element was separated
from "could" ("None of these writers could care less..."). Henry
Churchyard believes that this sentence by Jane Austen may be
pertinent: "You know nothing and you care less, as people say."
(Mansfield Park (1815), Chapter 29) Meaning-saving elaborations
have also been suggested: "As if I could care less!"; "I could care
less, but I'd have to try"; "If I cared even one iota -- which I
don't --, then I could care less."

Recently encountered has been "could give a damn", used in the
sense "couldn't give a damn".

An earlier transition in which "not" was dropped was the one that
gave us "but" in the sense of "only". "I will not say but one
word", where "but" meant "(anything) except", became "I will say but
one word."

Other idioms that say the opposite of what they mean include:
"head over heels" (which could mean turning cartwheels, i.e. "head
over heels over head over heels", but is also used to mean "upside-
down", i.e. "heels over head"); "Don't sneeze more than you can
help" (meaning "more than you cannot help"; "help" here means
"prevent"); "It's hard to open, much less acknowledge, the letters"
(where "less" means "harder", i.e. "more"); "I shouldn't wonder if
it didn't rain"; "I miss not seeing you"; and "I turned my life
around 360 degrees" -- not to mention undisputedly ironic phrases
such as "fat chance", "Thanks a *lot*", and "I should worry".

David wrote:
However, I find Mr. Israel 's observations (set forth in your post)
to result from good and competent historical analysis,
and without flaw in logic. I deem his assertions to support my articulated positions.

Grammar Puss

S Pinker

A tin ear for stress and melody, and an obliviousness to the principles of discourse and rhetoric, are important tools of the trade for the language maven. Consider an alleged atrocity committed by today's youth: the expression [I could care less]. The teenagers are trying to express disdain, the adults note, in which case they should be saying [I couldn't care less]. If they could care less than they do, that means that they really do care, the opposite of what they are trying to say. But if these dudes would stop ragging on teenagers and scope out the construction, they would see that their argument is bogus.

Listen to how the two versions are pronounced:

...

The melodies and stresses are completely different, and for a good reason. The second version is not illogical, it's [sarcastic]. The point of sarcasm is that by making an assertion that is manifestly false or accompanied by ostentatiously mannered intonation, one deliberately implies its opposite. A good paraphrase is, "Oh yeah, as if there were something in the world that I care less about."

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/1994_01_24_thenewrepublic.html

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I think Mr Pinker tries too hard.

And I find the examples given previously more convincing.
e.g. "I could care less (but it's very unlikely)"

Quote:

David wrote:
However, I find Mr. Israel 's observations (set forth in your post)
to result from good and competent historical analysis,
and without flaw in logic. I deem his assertions to support my articulated positions.

Quote:

Quote:

That you "deem his assertions to support" your views shows just
how little you understand about language, David.

U keep repeating that, JTT, like a mantra,
in CONCLUSORY ` FORM rather than demonstrating
your point in evidentiary form.
If u wish to be taken seriously,
then show your reasoning one step at a time.
What u r doing now is little above mindless emoting.

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I note that all you offer is a mindless repetition of thoroughly debunked prescriptions.

U did not debunk any of my assertions,
neither "thoroughly" nor in any degree.

I will type in red below
to distinguish my commentary from the work of Mr. Pinker.

As always ( or most of the time ) I will use fonetic spelling,
in my humble effort
to tear down so much of the orthografic paradime as is non-fonetic.

Quote:

Grammar Puss

S Pinker

A tin ear for stress and melody,
and an obliviousness to the principles of discourse and rhetoric,
are important tools of the trade for the language maven.
This is true as to "stress and melody" in that the logic of the words themselves must govern,
but it is false as to "principles of discourse and rhetoric".

Consider an alleged atrocity committed by today's youth:
It was my observation that people
thru their 40s were equally guilty of this error of logic.


the expression [I could care less].
The teenagers are trying to express disdain,
the adults note, in which case they should be saying [I couldn't care less].
If they could care less than they do, that means that they really do care,
the opposite of what they are trying to say.
Yes; that is the point.



But if these dudes would stop ragging on teenagers and scope
out the construction, they would see that their argument is bogus.
That is false.
Listen to how the two versions are pronounced:

...



The melodies and stresses are completely different,
and for a good reason.
The expressed animalistic, negative emotions
successfully indicate the awkward speaker 's state of mind
thereby counter-acting the errors of his logic,
in like manner as if he pounded on a table or brandished a weapon,
but that is NOT sound logic, which has mathematical precision.

To speak with sound logic, JTT,
is to do so in a manner that a computer woud accurately comprehend.
(I am aware that computers do not comprehend anything,
since thay are not alive, but thay act as if thay understand.)





The second version is not illogical, it's [sarcastic].
That is factually incorrect; some things were uttered in sarcasm: NOT THAT.

As someone who actually lived thru it, and who participated in argument
with them right then and there on the scene,
I saw that thay did not understand nor did thay care,
what errors flowed from their mouths.
Thay were ruff and gross in their mental processes.

To the extent that Mr. Pinker indicates that thay made their opinions known
by their "melodies and stresses" he is accurate
in that when thay growled and snarled and screamed:
"I coud CARE LESS whether u approve or not" thay succeeded
in communicating the idea that thay did not care,
however rife with imperfection their logic was.

If a man has any self respect
and wishes to represent himself to the world
as having a logical mind, then he shoud arrange his syntax
in a logical fashion to express what he means.
He can reasonably and logically be held responsible
for what he SAYS, rather than what he is THINKING about.




The point of sarcasm is that by making an assertion that is manifestly false
or accompanied by ostentatiously mannered intonation,
one deliberately implies its opposite.
A good paraphrase is, "Oh yeah, as if there were something
in the world that I care less about."
No. That is something different and it did not happen,
so far as I observed at the time, in America.
Thay made it plain that thay simply did not know nor care
what errors fell from their mouths, but relied upon body language
and upon the aforesaid "melodies and stresses" and
facial expressions of rejection to get their point across.

When I corrected them, thay NEVER said that thay were being sarcastic.
I don 't know, but I suspect that Mr. Pinker is too young
to have lived thru it and observed how it was projected.

What simply happened was that toward the end of the 1950s, approximately,
people began to say that thay did not care about something,
that thay had absolutely zero interest in it,
by asserting that thay "couldn 't care less" [than thay did] about it.
After a while, this frase became corrupted,
apparently by imperfect understanding thereof, such that some people
who had failed to hear the "n 't" began in error
to repeat it in corrupted form as "I could care less" thereby
reversing the meaning by deleting the word "not"; that word can possibly be IMPORTANT.





David