Under God With Liberty

Nothing will satisfy the hard nosed Christian, except to force their beliefs in where they are not welcome.

I offer a compromise:

You folks give up all this superstitious worshipping of gods in the public sector...and we give up preventing you from worshipping the gods in your own homes.

I said if something could be come up with that would satisfy boths sides I am all for that.

I am just not one side getting what they want and the other not.

Officially? What the heck does that have to do with it? It's there, it's been there for as long as I can remember. It's two words. Yes, they mean something different to me than they do you, but, just as you have the right not to practice religion, you have the right to not recognize those two words. Can you suggest something that would satisfy both sides?

Momma Angel wrote:

I said if something could be come up with that would satisfy boths sides I am all for that.

I am just not one side getting what they want and the other not.

Officially? What the heck does that have to do with it? It's there, it's been there for as long as I can remember. It's two words. Yes, they mean something different to me than they do you, but, just as you have the right not to practice religion, you have the right to not recognize those two words. Can you suggest something that would satisfy both sides?

It is so very true. YOU don't understand.

We are a government of LAWS, not of men. I'm sure you don't understand that either.

Our CONSTITUTION, the supreme LAW of the land, protects INDIVIDUAL liberties. I'm sure you don't understand that either.

We are NOT one nation "under God." The individuals who comprise this country are diverse in their beliefs. Some believe in God; some do not. Our government is SECULAR. It is supposed to be NEUTRAL with respect to religion. I'm sure you don't understand that either.

FEDERAL LAWS are enacted by the legislative branch of government--by CONGRESS. The LAWS are required to be secular--religion neutral.

The pledge of allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, Congress enacted a LAW to add the words "under God" as follows:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

THEREFORE--OFFICIALLY--by the mandate of LAW--the pledge states we are one nation, under God. This official congressional mandate conflicts with the supreme LAW that ALL of us have the LIBERTY to believe in God or NOT believe in God as WE choose. It is a personal choice--it is one that CANNOT be imposed upon us through an official endorsement of God in OUR--not just your's or the religious folks'--PLEDGE of allegiance.

If we are truly ONE NATION, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL . . . then that nation includes the deists and the non-deists alike. NONE of us should tolerate an OFFICIAL version of the national pledge enacted by LAW that places all of us as one nation "under God" when it's our duty to respect the liberty of ALL. The liberty of all requires a secular government.

It is YOUR DUTY as an American citizen to ensure liberty and justice for ALL Americans by demanding a secular, neutral government.

If you don't understand the "big deal" of two little words in our OFFICIAL PLEDGE of allegiance enacted by LAW and imposed on EVERYONE--then you have no understanding of what it truly means to be an American. And that's embarrassing.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I offer a compromise:

You folks give up all this superstitious worshipping of gods in the public sector...and we give up preventing you from worshipping the gods in your own homes.

And just what does the 'public sector' encompass?

I had to come back to this. You would give up preventing us from worshiping God in our own home? I hardly see this as a compromise.

Frank, even if the word God was taken off every public building, every document, etc., you could never remove Him from the hearts and minds of those that love Him.

And, trying to prevent anyone from practicing their rights in their own home? Frank, even for you this sounds pretty drastic.

Would you also have all of the churches destroyed?

Frank,

I don't think it's religion you want to get rid of. I think it is God Himself.

From what you have posted here, I don't see you care anything about my, or any other person that believes in God, rights. You want what you want and if you will forgive the expression "to hell with the Christians and their God."

You have decided what God is and so your take on things is that we shouldn't worship Him? I am sorry you feel this way. I am sorry you do not see God for who He really is. I am sorry for you.

Frank,

Who made you God to decide what is best for humanity?

That is what freedom of religion is about. Everyone decides those things for themselves. It's not up to you.

Frank,

You stop trying to take away my religious freedom and I will stop trying to take away your freedom from religion. If you want freedom from religion, then don't practice it, don't talk about it, don't have bibles in your home, don't put yourself in it's path. I won't come to your house to preach to you and you won't come to my house to unpreach to me. For someone who wants freedom from religion, you should spout enough of it.

Oh, and I'm not losing it. I'm actually doing quite well thank you.

Sorry, the check is not in the mail. Uh, if it's our pledge of allegiance, then I have my right in there too, don't forget.

I said if something could be come up with that would satisfy boths sides I am all for that.

I am just not one side getting what they want and the other not.

Officially? What the heck does that have to do with it? It's there, it's been there for as long as I can remember. It's two words. Yes, they mean something different to me than they do you, but, just as you have the right not to practice religion, you have the right to not recognize those two words. Can you suggest something that would satisfy both sides?

mesquite wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:

Well, seems like you didn't need me to elaboarate at all.

I was asking for you to ellaborate to get your opinion since you had written...

Quote:

I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

I then provided the history because the change had occurred before your time and you appeared to be under the impression that it had always been that way.

You are one who says that you are always looking for a compromise. It seems to me that the best compromise for the pledge problem is to return it to is original form "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" or even to add "equality" since our nation has now progressed past the unequal treatment of women and non whites. That way the pledge will be neutral toward religion and atheists cannot be asking for it to say "under no god' and those of other religious faiths will also not be slighted.

Sounds good to me. I can certainly live with that. Wouldn't be nice if it were this easy for compromises to be reached on all issues?