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Under God With Liberty

 
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 03:07 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?


MA, I hope that was a combined response to both me and Rex.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 03:13 pm
Sorry Mesquite. It was meant as a combined answer. I'm in the middle of something and just jotted out what I wanted to say.

So, my first statement was to you. The rest was to Rex. I apologize.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 03:32 pm
I thought so MA.

Could you please ellaborate on "It was written the way it was written for a reason."?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 03:36 pm
mesquite wrote:
I thought so MA.

Could you please ellaborate on "It was written the way it was written for a reason."?
Elaborate? Well, ok. LOL. When the pledge was written and the constitution Christianity had a great deal to do with everyone's daily lives then. It was not as it seems to be today, they believed in God and believed He was part of everything. That is a real oversimplification but that's it in a nutshell. Now, I realize that probably not every single person of that time felt that way so don't call me on that one!
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 04:21 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
mesquite wrote:
I thought so MA.

Could you please ellaborate on "It was written the way it was written for a reason."?
Elaborate? Well, ok. LOL. When the pledge was written and the constitution Christianity had a great deal to do with everyone's daily lives then. It was not as it seems to be today, they believed in God and believed He was part of everything. That is a real oversimplification but that's it in a nutshell. Now, I realize that probably not every single person of that time felt that way so don't call me on that one!


The Pledge was written by in 1892 by Baptist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931), brother of the socialist Edward who famously wrote "Looking Backward." As it was first conceived, the pledge ran: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." Bellamy had considered adding "equality" to the list with liberty and justice, but knew that the superintendents of the school system for which it was written were against equality for women and minorities.

In 1923, the Daughters of the American Revolution lobbied successfully for a change from "my Flag" to "the flag of the United State of America," lest some lowdown Communist sneakily recite the Pledge while meaning the banner of the USSR. Bellamy's protest to this pedantic change was ignored.

In 1954, the Knights of Columbus campaigned to have "under God" added to the Pledge, and once again, the Communists were behind the change. It was thought that emphasizing the godliness of the United States would highlight the godlessness of the USSR. Bellamy's granddaughter remarked at the time that the Minister would have been opposed to this change as well.

A History of the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance
0 Replies
 
thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 05:50 pm
The reality of it all is that the United States is not based on promoting any belief of God whatsoever. It is more of just a process by which we all can live in civilized freedom. I am ok with changing the pledge to: I pledge.... under the constitution indivisible.......
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 06:44 pm
Well, seems like you didn't need me to elaboarate at all.
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mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 07:53 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
Well, seems like you didn't need me to elaboarate at all.


I was asking for you to ellaborate to get your opinion since you had written...

Quote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.


I then provided the history because the change had occurred before your time and you appeared to be under the impression that it had always been that way.

You are one who says that you are always looking for a compromise. It seems to me that the best compromise for the pledge problem is to return it to is original form "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" or even to add "equality" since our nation has now progressed past the unequal treatment of women and non whites. That way the pledge will be neutral toward religion and atheists cannot be asking for it to say "under no god' and those of other religious faiths will also not be slighted.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 07:58 pm
mesquite wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Well, seems like you didn't need me to elaboarate at all.


I was asking for you to ellaborate to get your opinion since you had written...

Quote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.


I then provided the history because the change had occurred before your time and you appeared to be under the impression that it had always been that way.

You are one who says that you are always looking for a compromise. It seems to me that the best compromise for the pledge problem is to return it to is original form "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" or even to add "equality" since our nation has now progressed past the unequal treatment of women and non whites. That way the pledge will be neutral toward religion and atheists cannot be asking for it to say "under no god' and those of other religious faiths will also not be slighted.
Sounds good to me. I can certainly live with that. Wouldn't be nice if it were this easy for compromises to be reached on all issues?
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 08:07 pm
Great! Let us all write our congressmen.
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 08:08 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 08:08 pm
<applause for mesquite>

<and Momma Angel too...>
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2005 08:10 pm
I am all for compromise just as long as both sides are happy with the outcome.

Deleted the change of subject.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:10 am
Momma Angel wrote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?


If God "GAVE" Adam dominion then it was Adam's to give...

The trinity is paganism and idolatry...

Thou shalt have no other gods before me...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:13 am
RexRed wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?


If God "GAVE" Adam dominion then it was Adam's to give...

The trinity is paganism and idolatry...

Thou shalt have no other gods before me...

I would say judging by your post that you do not understand the concept of the Holy trinity. It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are all the same. Nothing is man's. Everything is God's. We are His creation. He is not ours.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:14 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
The reality of it all is that the United States is not based on promoting any belief of God whatsoever. It is more of just a process by which we all can live in civilized freedom. I am ok with changing the pledge to: I pledge.... under the constitution indivisible.......


What if the government begins to usurp and resemble a God to the un-knowledgable due to the void of God?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:17 am
Momma Angel wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?


If God "GAVE" Adam dominion then it was Adam's to give...

The trinity is paganism and idolatry...

Thou shalt have no other gods before me...

I would say judging by your post that you do not understand the concept of the Holy trinity. It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are all the same. Nothing is man's. Everything is God's. We are His creation. He is not ours.


I know the trinity... GOD the father GOD the son GOD the holy spirit equals 3 not 1... THAT is idolatry...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:19 am
RexRed wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?


If God "GAVE" Adam dominion then it was Adam's to give...

The trinity is paganism and idolatry...

Thou shalt have no other gods before me...

I would say judging by your post that you do not understand the concept of the Holy trinity. It is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are all the same. Nothing is man's. Everything is God's. We are His creation. He is not ours.


I know the trinity... GOD the father GOD the son GOD the holy spirit equals 3 not 1... THAT is idolatry...

Let me state it to you this way then. I UNDERSTAND the concept of the trinity. They do not equal 3, they equal one. I have been accused of a lot of things in my life, but because I believe in the trinity I am an idolator? Would you care to tell me where you get this? I am a Christian. I do not practice idolatry.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:20 am
Jesus is creation not the creator.... spirit is creation not the creator...

Ro 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Sep, 2005 12:24 am
RexRed wrote:
Jesus is creation not the creator.... spirit is creation not the creator...

Ro 1:25
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

I am a Christian. I sever the Lord Jesus Christ as God has instructed me to do.

Like I said, you obviously don't understand the concept of the trinity.

Would you mind telling me what Christian religion you follow?
0 Replies
 
 

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