Under God With Liberty

I think 'they' just wish we'd forget about God period. Won't happen.

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Grow up kids. Guess what, the entire WORLD is under God and you guys display a lot of nerve running around acting like we're special or the only ones or something.

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A god of liberty... I often hear religious people go on about divine intervention, and then in the next breath about freedom, not realizing that...

...you do not have freedom unless you are at LIBERTY to f**k up.

To believe in a deterministic god that controls everything is a direct contradiction to the notion of free will.

So, "one nation under god", does not mean that anyone is guided by god, that would be in defiance of everything human.

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Cyracruz Wrote:

Quote:

A god of liberty... I often hear religious people go on about divine intervention, and then in the next breath about freedom, not realizing that...

...you do not have freedom unless you are at LIBERTY to f**k up.

To believe in a deterministic god that controls everything is a direct contradiction to the notion of free will.

So, "one nation under god", does not mean that anyone is guided by god, that would be in defiance of everything human.

Ah, but we do have the freedom to mess up! That is what free will is all about. We make the choice and we suffer the consequences for those choices.

I don't recall anyone saying that they believed in a deterministic God that controls everything? Not in this thread anyway. It's true that God has the power to determine everything, but God does not interfere with free will. That is ours. He does not take that from us. I consider divine intervention to be like when someone prays for God to intervene and He does. That's an exercise of my free will asking Him for help.

And one nation under God? Oh yes, it's true. We are all under God. Some just choose not to believe it, but the whole world is under God, as He created us.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I think 'they' just wish we'd forget about God period. Won't happen.

That is not so. We merely wish that you would desist from forcing your particular religious view on those that choose otherwise.

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Let me rephrase that then, it seems by many posts in these threads that many would wish that God would just be taken out of the picture altogether. (IMO)

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Would they rather we live "under government with law"?

Law versus liberty?

Government versus God...

I will take God over government and liberty over law...

When government becomes God, liberty becomes law...

Law is weak liberty is strong...

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Cyracuz wrote:

A god of liberty... I often hear religious people go on about divine intervention, and then in the next breath about freedom, not realizing that...

...you do not have freedom unless you are at LIBERTY to f**k up.

To believe in a deterministic god that controls everything is a direct contradiction to the notion of free will.

So, "one nation under god", does not mean that anyone is guided by god, that would be in defiance of everything human.

There are two Gods

One of law and one of liberty one of control (possession) and one of free will...

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Two Gods? I am not sure I understand what you are talking about. Can you elaborate, please?

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they're two... two... two Gods in one.

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What happened to the third one?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Let me rephrase that then, it seems by many posts in these threads that many would wish that God would just be taken out of the picture altogether. (IMO)

If by "out of the picture" you mean out of the governance of the USA then I would agree with you.

There is far too much written in the Bible that when taken literally would lead to horrific outcomes for me to have any comfort in it's being used as a guide for governance. IMO worship should be done at home or at church, not in public schools or court houses.

Considering what Jesus said in Mathew 6:5-8, I do not understand the obsession that the Christian right has about public acknowledgement of their God.

Quote:

.5 ¶ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
.6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
.7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

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Perhaps what you do not understand is that we are not embarrassed by what we believe and we have no problem with letting others know it. We feel we have the right to worship where we want to just as you have the right to not worship at all if that is what you chose.

And what those verses mean is you are not to use your prayer as boasting or for appearances.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Two Gods? I am not sure I understand what you are talking about. Can you elaborate, please?

The Bible is not monotheistic but teaches of TWO Gods...

The God of this world and the one TRUE God...

2Co 4:4
In whom the god [theos] of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

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And just whom do you think that God of this world is?

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Momma Angel wrote:

And just whom do you think that God of this world is?

The god that "blinds" must be some form of the "fallen" angel of "light" that Adam gave dominion over the earth to...

L:uke 4:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me [by Adam]; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Comment:
How could the "devil" offer the kingdoms of the world and make his claim credible if he did not have the power and possession of them?

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Momma Angel wrote:

Perhaps what you do not understand is that we are not embarrassed by what we believe and we have no problem with letting others know it. We feel we have the right to worship where we want to just as you have the right to not worship at all if that is what you chose.

And what those verses mean is you are not to use your prayer as boasting or for appearances.

That was my point.

I suspect that if the pledge were changed to read "one nation under no Gods", that you might have a problem with it. I can understand that and I would agree. Restoring the pledge to its original form is another thing entirely.

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The "trinity" is a lie from hell...

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I would have a problem changing it, yes. It was written the way it was written for a reason.

The God of this world that was being spoken of was the devil.

And Adam had no authority to give anyone dominion over anything. God gave Adam dominion over the land and animals and nothing else.

The trinity is a lie from hell? Where do you get that?

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Under God With Liberty

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